observations about MLF

CO2, that is

How and when do you start your MLF? I am new to this and don't totally understand it but I'm learning.

David

understand it but I'm learning.

More info on MLF here David

Lee,

My experience with MLF is that it occurs with or without innoculation although I still innoculate wines that I want to undergo MLF. My problem is to prevent it in my aromatic wines such as riesling, gewurztraminer, etc. even in the cool basement and with free SO2 levels in the 35-40 ppm range.

My wines are made in a basement in which the temperature is always below lower than comfortable room temperatures, generally around 16 or 17C or or even cooler in mid-winter.

MLF can occur quite slowly and be a little more difficult to detect when conditions are not ideal, but clearly it occurs more readily when: warmer temperatures, alcohol level below 16%, pH of at least 3.2 and when you use an ML innoculant (oenococcus bacteria). Many of the modern strains are active at 14C and relatively high SO2 levels.

Glen Duff

--------------------- LG1111 wrote:

Hi folks, I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.

My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only

40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them from rinsing.

The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about

6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.

I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.

Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then, and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.

steve

Hi folks, I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.

My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only

40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them from rinsing.

The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about

6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.

I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.

Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then, and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.

steve

Hi All,

For my aromatic whites I use 60ppm SO2, 500ppm Lysozyme, ferment at 45-50F and tight filter 0.5um nominal. Never had a problem with ML in bottle, at least not yet. I also bentonite fine during cold stabilization to remove any residual lysozyme.

CHEERS!

Aaron

Steve and others,

I could have almost written your post exactly as you did and signed it, knowing that is precisely my experience with whites (gewurztraminer, riesling, pinot grigio and a variety called geisenheim). Perhaps the only exception to your post is that I have not made a serious attempt at really fine filtration. Due to the fact that I have a Buon Vino Superjet as you do, I believe we are limited to .5 microns. I will now use this routinely on my whites although the medium filter seemed to clear my wines more than adequately. I guess the real issue is stabilization.

Like you I tried the lysozyme route and had mixed results even when generous doses were used. Man does that stuff foam when added to the must!!! This year I plan to be a little more agressive with the SO2 maybe taking it up to 50 ppm's although reluctantly. My philsophy has been to minimize SO2, one of the advantages IMHO of home winemaking.

Apart from sterile filtration and the need to purchase more equipment or the use of sorbate which I do not like, I am pretty well resigned to the fact that we have oenococcus all over our cellar and about all I can do is try to minimize the problem. I rarely have ML in bottles as I bulk age my whites for at least a year in glass before bottling and if it's going to go through ML it usually happens by then.

I am purchasing a chromatography kit as there is some guesswork when a wine is fermented in our cool basement as that can drag on for a long time especially the last phase from 1.000 to 0.992.

Two questions:

1) When is it a good time to sulfite for bulk aging in whites you do not want to undergo MLF and at what levels. When I wait till the alcoholic fermentation is pretty well complete I am concerned that MLF is already underway. I usually start with juice that is in the 20ppm range at the time of yeast fermentation so I am thinking by the time the SG is around 1.000 I should probably up it to around 40 or 50 ppm's.

2) I understand there is a Lalvin strain that is recommended for aromatic wines. I would be interested in any experience with this agent.

Any thoughts from the above two questions would be appreciated.

Glen Duff

-------------------

sapdog wrote:

Steve and others,

I could have almost written your post exactly as you did and signed it, knowing that is precisely my experience with whites (gewurztraminer, riesling, pinot grigio and a variety called geisenheim). Perhaps the only exception to your post is that I have not made a serious attempt at really fine filtration. Due to the fact that I have a Buon Vino Superjet as you do, I believe we are limited to .5 microns. I will now use this routinely on my whites although the medium filter seemed to clear my wines more than adequately. I guess the real issue is stabilization.

Like you I tried the lysozyme route and had mixed results even when generous doses were used. Man does that stuff foam when added to the must!!! This year I plan to be a little more agressive with the SO2 maybe taking it up to 50 ppm's although reluctantly. My philsophy has been to minimize SO2, one of the advantages IMHO of home winemaking.

Apart from sterile filtration and the need to purchase more equipment or the use of sorbate which I do not like, I am pretty well resigned to the fact that we have oenococcus all over our cellar and about all I can do is try to minimize the problem. I rarely have ML in bottles as I bulk age my whites for at least a year in glass before bottling and if it's going to go through ML it usually happens by then.

I am purchasing a chromatography kit as there is some guesswork when a wine is fermented in our cool basement as that can drag on for a long time especially the last phase from 1.000 to 0.992.

Two questions:

1) When is it a good time to sulfite for bulk aging in whites you do not want to undergo MLF and at what levels. When I wait till the alcoholic fermentation is pretty well complete I am concerned that MLF is already underway. I usually start with juice that is in the 20ppm range at the time of yeast fermentation so I am thinking by the time the SG is around 1.000 I should probably up it to around 40 or 50 ppm's.

2) I understand there is a Lalvin strain that is recommended for aromatic wines. I would be interested in any experience with this agent.

Any thoughts from the above two questions would be appreciated.

Glen Duff

-------------------

sapdog wrote:

sapdog wrote: