No Longer a Guinness Virgin...

never thought of it like that. I am not from here, but that makes sense. Either way it was really hard to get used to after the freedom of Chi-town...

Was it real freedom or just imagined freedom?

Here in CA, the fascist power of govt has rendered this alleged freedom to imbibe a stark illusion. While booze is purveyed in every grocery store, every restaurant, even every gas station, the consequences of indulging are brutal in the extreme. It's one thing to get caught exceeding the .08 limit ($3000-5000), but even a .01 test result will get your ass thrown in jail for 5-10 hrs and you car impounded, a quaint little scam costing at least a couple hundred dollars and much time and effort. We even have nazi-style roadblocks thrown up to make sure no one makes it home without getting run through the wallet grinder.

Drunk driving laws in this country are the ultimate in hypocrisy. And, just to make sure all our local govts are getting their fare share, the fed govt has officially joined in promoting more alcohol consumption by revoking 40 year old laws prohibiting advertising hard liquor on tv. Yep, our govt has discovered it's much more profitable to legalize alcohol consumption and then penalize you for it than to outlaw it outright.

All of this is a great reason to take up home brewing.

nb

0.01 BAC gets your car impounded? You can get that drinking fresh-squeezed orange juice.

There were no laws or regulations prohibitin advertising spirits on TV. There was an agreement among the manufacturers that they would not advertise on TV. It saved them a ton of money and kept them out of the "Save the children!!!" screaming fits. But there was no federal law prohibiting such ads. Makes me wonder how accurate your drunk-driving horror stories are.

Eh? How's that figger? Your homebrewer got no alcohol?

Ask my daughter. She's the one who spent 6 hrs behind bars and payed $300 (busted Fri afternoon, so couldn't get it out till monday @$35 per day storage) to get her car out. I've been through the roadblocks. One town threw them up so often (no holiday needed!), the locals got savvy and quit taking that route. They'd get outstanding warrants and selt-belt violators, too. So why isn't this done to catch the 6 million (known) illegal aliens in this country? No money in it!

Sure, there's alcohol. But, the drive home is a cakewalk. :)

nb

But...was she drinking?

Well, that's true.

Yeah, well... I got two cases of Victory cold in the garage. I ain't doing no driving either (and on a sleeting, snowing night like this, it's a good thing!).

Oh, please. I drink quite frequently here in California, and I haven't run across anything restricting my freedom to do so.

IIRC, that applies only to people under 21. Which, given how the drinking age is 21, I can't say that I have a whole lot of problem with having a lower tolearance for drivers under that age who have alcohol in their system.

Roadblocks are not Nazi-style. I don't like them, think they violate the 4th amendment, but you have to go a whole hell of a lot worse to get to Nazi levels.

And, FWIW, I've not witnessed anything of the sort in two years in southern California.

They often hit the wrong end of the target, yes.

Nope. There's never been any law banning alcohol advertising of any sort. Just cigarettes. The drinks companies agreed not to advertise on TV. They still don't advertise on broadcast, but have been advertising on cable for a few years. But it's all voluntary.

-Steve

In Chicago, quite real, because it's a realistic option to go out for a night of drinkin' without driving. Trains are frequent, buses run all over town, and taxis show up pretty promptly and aren't insanely expensive.

In all those places, you're buying packaged alcoholic beverages, meant to be enjoyed at home (usually).

And let me guess: no charges filed, so you can't really get a lawyer involved. Or can't you? Unreasonable search and seizure? What is this new law, that you can still be detained and jailed for 0.01 percent BAC?

Stupidly enforced, mainly. Instead of going after the hardest of hard core drunks at the wheel, the lawmakers just lower the bar for the legal definition of "impaired."

I don't have a problem with liquor ads on TV, though.

The new Prohibition is about keeping it "legal," but keeping you from going out and enjoying it - under certain circumstances. You won't see cops parked outside of the fancy restaurants where the well-to-do go to eat, of course; never mind that those folks are a bottle or two wine past the post before they finish dinner.

Or buy good beer to take home, or buy a kegerator, or ...

Strange, though. I've not encountered this where I live.

And your daughter (or you) has talked to a lawyer about this? And she blew 0.01? Showed no sign of being impaired? There are some details missing here.

Six hours behind bars? Charged with anything? Your legislators have let this happen?

Well, at least the locals figured it out.

Ah, but the pResident has a plan to make all those illegals, um, "legal." Problem solved.

So drive home from the beer shop or likker store, and enjoy your goods that way.

My daughter is 26.

You are entitled to your own opinion. To me, driving down a major thoroughfare on a sunny afternoon and having to queue up for a roadblock geared to potentially depriving me of my freedom and/or liberty is pretty damn Naziistic in my book!

Lucky you.

I stand corrected on that point. The fact remains that booze is being pushed harder than ever in this nation, while the financial penalties for its consumption have become ever more draconian.

nb

Ever hear of Auschwitz, or Dachau, or Buchenwald, or Bergen-Belsen, or....? Equating that with a police checkpoint, regardless of how sunny your day was, seems a bit of a stretch.

I hear you there.

See, I have the same kind of plan to cut underage drinking in half overnight. Lower the drinking age to 18 again. The dirty secret that the anti-booze people are sitting on is that all that "underage drinking" that's going on is mostly by people between the ages of 18 and 21, who are in almost every other legal sense 'adults.' More bullshit.

Yeah, I don't get this homebrewing thing. Okay, homebrewing as a hobby, I get that, hobbies are all about DOING the thing. Swell. But unless you're looking to save some fairly insignificant bucks on taxes (under $11 a half-barrel here in PA), I don't see any non-hobby reasons to homebrew. I can buy damn near anything I want at stores under 20 minutes away (my wife can pick it up directly on her way home from work), I bring it home, I can drink it at home, and I don't (mostly) have to worry about mung in the bottom. Where's the advantage, minus the attraction of homebrewing as a hobby?

And, they would be able legally drink in almost any other western nation in the world.

I think it's a bit like asking "Why bake at home when we have all these wonderful artisan bakeries supplying everything we could possibly want"?

You are right, the hobby absolutely is the big draw, and it seems to me that the vast majority of homebrewers brew for that very reason. But, not everyone has the kind of beer selection you've got, and some people live in places where beer is taxed much more excessively.

For example, among other things, I really do enjoy British ordinary bitters. No one makes those here: all the bitters are bigger. The *only* way for me to get that short of a trip to the UK is to brew it myself.

I know homebrewers who started brewing after travelling, tasting wonderful beers that they couldn't get at home and wondered if it would be possible to brew something comparable themselves.

In time, most find that they can - and it's not like this never goes anywhere: the brewer at every single brewpub in my city is a homebrewer who turned pro: some of them still brew at home, too!

Admittedly, brewing to save money is kind of crazy, unless your time is worth nothing - not to mention that there is an investment in brewing equipment.

I'm not really contesting your point - it is one hell of a satisfying hobby and that is the big reason. But sometimes there are other factors at play.

Bill

Aside from the hobby aspect (which is a huge part of the reason to brew; I try to get that idea across to people I meet who think homebrewing is a great idea for strictly economic reasons), it's a supply thing. While *you* may have a great source of beer available, some people don't. E.g., if you're in one of those states that won't allow sales of beer over 6% abv yet you love barleywines, Belgians, Old Ales, etc., brewing your own may make sense. Ditto if you live somewhere like Ponca City, OK.

Don't be rediculous. The Third Reich didn't spring instantly into being, a full fledged genocide machine. But, when the Nazi party first gained power in the early days, it began stopping citizens in the street. Who's to say where our ever more intrusive govt will end up. Feel free to substitute the oppresive, fascist govt of your choice.

nb

Are you serious? Number one: cost! Four cases of homebrew can be made for as little as $30. That's about $.30 a bottle. Number two: better beer! I'm not a full fledged home brewer yet, but my mentor is. He's been at it for ten years and can brew any beer style you can name. I've enjoyed the fruits of his labors and can honestly say his homebrew, with few exceptions, is superior to commercial beer in every respect. Granted, making excellent homebrew requires a sizeable investment up front, but it will pay for itself, eventually, and you'll end up drinking better beer.

nb

No, that for much of the homebrewed beer, I can find a commercial beer that isn't as good.

What the

You have got to start hanging out with better homebrewers.

And that's about all I'm saying.

I certainly wouldn't say such a thing. Even about my own beer.

I'm just quoting them, for effect. Think of it as subtle mega-sarcasm.

Guinness does taste better in a pub. Maybe has something to do with temperature - or the way they slowly pour it. (And here its almost the same price to buy one home so no reason to do so - also my nearest pub is almost as near as nearest shop, well within walking distance.) After Guinness, Murrphys Irish Stout they also have in every pub in the world and its drinkable too.

However,

encountered,

Ah, clarity, where are you?

Are you serious? For MUCH of the homebrewed beer you've had, you can find a commercial beer (of the same style) that isn't as good? Sorry, Joel, that is just so contrary to my experience that I find it somewhat disingenuous.

I'll be willing to admit that there are commercial examples of styles that outright blow; much of the beer brewed in the US and labeled as "Oktoberfest" comes to mind. I'd be willing to admit that may be homebrewed examples of those styles that are equal to those 'blowing' beers, or are better. But...would you continue to buy those blowing beers? Or would you simply buy a different commercial beer that didn't blow? I would switch brands, not start homebrewing.

You keep saying that. I keep responding that it's just not likely that I'm in some weird pocket of sub-standard homebrewers. You obviously do hang out with alpha homebrewers. (And I don't mean acid. Though that may be true, too.) "Better" than commercial? How bad ARE commercial brews in the Midwest? No, wait...I've had beers in certain brewpubs that were definitely outclassed by homebrew I've had. Is that the kind of stuff you're talking about? Famously bad brewpubs?

It IS what you're talking about!

That's how he's coming across, and that's ridiculous. Or as they say everywhere else, rediculous.

I'm thinking that, and all that comes to mind is a Yugo full of Ewok underwear.