malolactic fermentation

I'm no expert on apple cider, but I'd guess that since the dominant acid in apples is malic, if you run ML on it the cider/wine will end up so flat you could slip it under a door. :^/

If you want to make a wine that tastes like vinifera, you need to start with vinifera fruit.

Tom S

consequences if

Tom, you are absolutely correct. I once used a yeast in an apple wine that was suppose to be good at using up malic acid. I was concerned that the wine made from all tart apple juice would be too acidic. The end result was an extremely flat wine. The yeast did its job but the product was not good.

Thanks for the advice. Couldn't I just add extra tartaric after malolactic if it tasted flat? Since many of the best apple ciders contain residual sugar to bring out the apples, I made the vinifera comment to distinguish what I am making (dry, full-bodied apple wine) from apple cider. In my opinion, the best country wines mimic the styles of vinifera wines--that's why I like Jack's recipes--the wines don't taste like the starting fruit.

It's pretty hard to grow vinifera vines here in Georgia (or impossible), but I can drive an hour into the mountains and get a bushel of apples for about $5. That's why, if I could get something even remotely resembling the buttery flavor of a chardonnay, I would be a pretty happy guy. In addition, malolactic takes away the "fruity" taste in wines, so I thought that might move my wine even one more step away from cider and one more toward wine.

Vic

By the way, I started with dessert apples, so what is in there now is much more like the acid profile of a normal wine. That's one reason I thought I could treat MLF like a normal wine's.

Thanks,

Vic

Vic, Grapes are the only fruit containing significant amounts of tartaric acid, so your desert apples wont have the acid profile of grapes. A high sugar content and the tartaric acid are the main reasons grapes unique for winemaking. Lum Del Mar, California, USA

Lum,

I think you misunderstand me. The dessert apples are like a blank slate, since they are lacking in acid and tannin. Effectively, all they bring to the table is body. In fact, grapes, apples, and sometimes pears give the best body, since they are really the only fruits whose fruitiness winemakers don't have to counteract by watering down the juice.

I have already supplemented what was not there (normal acid levels) with acid blend which, of course, is similar to the acid profile of vinifera grapes. That's why these wines' acid profile IS like that of grapes now.

SO, if what I have in there now effectively mimics the acid profile of grapes, could I then do MLF, later adding tartaric acid to counteract any flatness MLF brings?

Thanks for bearing with me.

Vic

acid blend which, of course, is similar to the acid profile of vinifera

I did misunderstand Vic. Sorry. Grapes contain about equal amounts of amlic and tartaric acid and a tiny amount of citric acid. Most acid blends contain about equal parts of malic, tartaric and citric, so acid blend has much more citric acid than grapes. But, I do get your point.

I don't know why you can't do MLF. But, the butter character depends on how MLF is conducted. More MLF info here

Good luck, Lum Del Mar, California, USA

Vic - Go ahead and make it with the ML. You've only got $5.00 in the wine. Report back with your results. If you want a Chardonnay-like wint throw in some StaVin oak beans. Can't hurt. I've tasted apple wine aged in oak barrels and it's pretty good.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

Yup - a full blown, uncontrolled MLF in a malic wine is_always_a disaster.

Comments interspersed:

Adding tartaric will take the wine "out of character" (so to speak) so I prefer to use malic (and just a touch of citric) when making apple wine. However, since it is Vic's intended purpose to take this wine "out of character", then yes, tartaric should be used. HTH

Hi Vic

Lum is right. Grapes do contain about equal amounts of tartaric/malic. Apples contain almost all malic. So - by adding acid blend you have not actually achieved a grape like balance. (eg the malic is still greater than the tartaric). If you want to start experimenting with acid management, I suggest you get the individual acids to work with and throw that acid blend away. HTH

Frederick