tried Samuel Smith's IPA

I've had the Sam Smith IPA before and it *is* on the less interesting side. If you can find it, try a Meantime IPA. Best English IPA I've ever had!

That's why American IPAs are sub-categorized apart from English IPAs. But yes, Sammy's is pretty lame. Maybe just a bad example, like Pyramid is lame example of American IPAs. Lesson learned here: screw a buncha history. Drink what you like. :)

nb

I started getting interested in beer in the early '70's, a time when there wasn't a whole lot of information on beer available (very few books in print, etc) and, needless to say, not a whole lot of interesting beer around, either. Luckily, I grew up in a Ballantine XXX Ale household, so I did know that beer COULD be different than "Industrial Light Lager".

One of the first steps from Ballantine XXX Ale would, at the time, naturally be Ballantine India Pale Ale- an INCREDIBLE beer for the time- high in alcohol, expensive (usually THE most expensive US beer on the shelf), dark amber, heavily hopped. From there, one noticed that Labatt also marketed a beer called "IPA" (tho' not imported to US) and once found it Canada, it was definitely an "eh" beer. At times, Bass Ale has had "IPA" in small letters on it's label, but, it too, while certainly DIFFERENT than US beers and ales (again, at the time, if one was used to only US beer, the first sip of Bass was a "WOW" moment), wasn't nearly as strong or hoppy as BIPA.

I recall finding Samuel Smith beers in the mid-70's, a time when there weren't a lot of UK beers in the US. They were expensive, even for imports, disappointly came in clear bottles (since I was a regular Ballantine drinker, I *knew* the disadvantages of green and clear glass) but I eventually bought a six. While certainly still lacking in hops, it was memorable- I remember thinking that it was the first beer that tasted similar to the homebrew I'd been making.

I think that "India Pale Ales" in various countries had been slowly "dumbed down" through the years before the microbrewery revolution (and, unusually, a US version was the last to suffer the fate- altho' it did get progressively blanded, first, at Ballantine (where, in the 30's it was actually bottle conditioned), and finally, at Falstaff, where it's hopping rate and alcohol content shrunk as it moved from RI to Indiana and eventually disappeared in the mid-90's).

I also think that "modern" IPA's have evolved BEYOND the original, especially when it comes to hop levels. (Wasn't there even some debate on whether "original" recipes of IPA's sent to India were meant to be diluted when they reached the troops?).

That was my first exposure, also. I didn't discover Ballantine XXX till I spent a month in Boston in '72. What a revelation. Upon my return to CA, I had to do without till it was finally distributed out West in the late 70s. In the 80s, I stumbled upon a sixer of Ballantine's India Pale Ale in one of our better liquor stores. WoW! Yes, it was completly different and was about the most expensive beer I'd run across up to that time, but I bought it and I loved it. I'd get a sixer every payday.

I abandoned beer for a few years, lured away by the intrigues of the noble grape. Now, these many years later, I'm back with a vengence. I've learned how to brew and my mentor, a brewer of great skill has made it his goal to recreate the original bottle condtioned Ballantine's Burton's IPA, a very special version. I've tasted a few of his efforts and they are fabulous. Maybe, one day, we'll see Ballantine's IPA back on the shelf.

In the meantime, there's lotsa good stuff out there to keep us occupied. I'm getting a sixer of Drake's IPA (my fave) today and I had a couple pints of Pliny the Elder (dbl ipa) yesterday. Yum!

nb

That's the strange thing about Falstaff's takeover of the Ballantine ale(s). At one time (40's and 50's), Ballantine was certainly a national brand, the third largest brewer and the largest with only a single brewery. And, yet, it seems, that Falstaff (among other nasty things they did with the brand- they were actually sued by Ballantine stockholders who still received dividends on Ballantine sales) turned it into a regional (primarily New England and the Northeast) brand even while they listed all the Falstaff breweries (like San Francisco and San Jose) on the label. I don't know, was the XXX Ale ever brewed in any other Falstaff brewery, other than Ft. Wayne and Cranston (maybe that Nebraska brewery), before the Pabst purchase?

In 1976, I went to lunch with my boss in a downtown LA restaurant, which had a very "retro" feel, like something out of a film noire film. Surprisingly, they had "Ballantine Ale" on the menu (or maybe it was a sign?). I ordered one, since I'd been without for several months. (The boss got soda- oops.) I was served an original Newark-era Ale, complete with those "West Coast" labels where the oval logo went sideways (never did get the reasoning for that). I drank it- what the hell, it came out of a dark cooler- even tho' it was 3-4 years old by that time. Tasted "ok".

Yeah, but how are you going to be sure it the same, until it's 20-40 years old .

Pabst has as of late sold some of the brands they own (Rheingold, Narragansett, etc.). Since Fritz Maytag was always a Ballantine Ale fan (in the early days, he often mentioned the beer in interviews, he supposedly based Old Foghorn on Ballantine Burton Ale, etc.), it's always been my fantasy that he'd buy the brand(s) and restore them to their former glory.

I don't know. Even stranger, it was only the XXX ale that was unavailable. The nondescript Ballantine's Lager was available out here as far back as I can remember, though I can't recall ever seeing a single person ever buy/drink it. I tried it only once. Bleh.

Heh... And my friend does know how that tastes. He snagged two sealed bottles of the original Burton's IPA on ebay. He's pretty darned good at accurately reproducing any brand beer. Often, his clones are better than the original. His Bitburger clone is to die for.

Yep. My buddy has corresponded with Fritz. The only trouble with my friend's efforts are, with the exception of the two ebay bottles, he's never tasted Ballantine's IPA. Only the Burton's IPA. Worse, when back East a couple years ago, he didn't even bother to try XXX ale. I haven't had any in years, myself, but I'd like to think there's a little bit of the old Ballantine's unique hoppy character left in that product.

nb

Yeah, probably because Ballantine Lager Beer WAS brewed and canned by Falstaff's "sister" brewing company, General (aka, at various times in it's history, Lucky Lager Brewing Company), which marketed a ton of "economy" brands at one point (seems like every different LA area supermarket chain sold a different General label, almost as if they were "house" brands).

The only trouble with my

I've maintained that the micro that most remind me of BIPA (the Narragansett/Ft. Wayne versions, at least) is SN Celebration Ale. In fact, a 1/2 and 1/2 of Celebration and Bigfoot is even closer.

Just a very little of the character is left in Miller's version (altho', IIRC, I thought the Milwaukee Pabst version was an improvement but, after than it was downhill...). I try it once a year or so (it IS cheap, you can usually find it for $12 a case) and I'm always disappointed. Supposedly two micros are based on the original- Bosco's in Nashville and some Calif. or PNW brewer had a beer they claimed used the same formula, too, but can't recall who now- and the new owner of the Narragansett brand implied they'd be interested in a "new" Ballantine Ale. There was also talk of Sly Fox having a draft-only Ballantine Ale clone called Glacier IPA (I think it was).

Here's a great article on the Ballantine ales-

and, as noted near the end, Portland Brewing Company's beers, Portland Pale Ale and Woodstock IPA were based on Ballantine XXX Ale and India Pale Ale, respectively.

Just to pick nits, if his "clones" are better than the original, how can they be accurate reproductions?

heh heh.... You don't really expect an answer, do you?

nb