Using Tea Bags

No, the reasons are _very_ important. Once we know the reasons, we can prevent it from happening.

--scott

Water won't superheat if the tea bag is in there.

If you're worried about superheating, a better solution is to get an earthenware mug with a rough glazed surface.

--scott

If you do this regularly, get a diamond engraver and put a couple lines down the side of the cup on the inside. This will provide nucleation points to start boiling.

You can also buy a "boil over preventer" or "pot watcher" made of acid-etched glass. They used to be free handouts at the Corning museum. Problem is that you can't leave one in a measuring cup all the time because it's displacing some of whatever you're measuring.

--scott

I had to look up boiling stones

and, I'm sorry, but I still don't understand. Are we using different definitions? Please see:

By your reply, I'm thinking that you mean heating/cooling faster, not to a higher/lower temperature to boil/freeze. Is that right? My understanding of superheating matches the following from

"Liquid would not be superheated if the liquid is heated via heated container (e.g. water in a pot on top of a stove) because the heated container surface that heats up the liquid provides nucleation sites for the liquid to boil off and cool down. This is in contrast to a microwave, where the water is directly heated via microwaves and not by the container."

Is it possible that we're saying the same thing and I don't recognize that we are?

Here's my take from a tea-novice (but no longer just a tea-newbie).

When I first started with this "loose tea" business, I always microwaved my water. And it was sufficient. And as I became more into tea, I invested in an electric kettle (and an automatic tea maker- because I'm still lazy). I could taste a difference from the microwaved water. Maybe it was just psychological, but I did notice it

- especially with flavored teas. It may also be the "food odors" and such, too. I don't clean out my microwave as much as I should :-x

Now, when I brew tea, I always try to use loose leaf, kettle boiled water. Of course, I don't always have that convenience, usually at work or when I'm traveling. While I think loose leaf teas are a better investment, I'm not "above" using a bag or microwaved water if I have to. It tastes good enough. And if I want tea, I'd rather go for something than nothing. Even if it's bigelow, although I really REALLY have to want tea to use bigelow.

Also, I always boil my milk in the microwave when I'm making chai (with the chai in the microwave, as well). It tastes fine to me.

And as for the tea bag issue, I wouldn't use them more than twice. The first time they can be good, the sec> Fran wrote:

i did a double blind test on myself - heating water itself in the mw, without any nucleation enablers, and the microwaved water tasted different, and the tea infused tasted different, not major but distinctly different and to me somewhat un-enjoyable

Thanks, Scott.

"Flat" is a good description and I agree.

(Nice glasses, BTW.)

Sort of. Nucleation requires addition of enough energy to overcome the newly created bubble's surface energy. In a microwave, heat is added over a large volume at low energy density, so local thermal gradients are low, there is nil turbulence (as distinct from laminar convection) and superheating only when the bulk is quite warm. With a heating element, energy is deposited in a turbulent and unstable boundary layer, guaranteeing local superheating and boiling while the bulk is still cool. We all know what that sounds and looks like: large bubbles formed at the element or bottom surface disappear before surfacing as they are cooled by the bulk. The issue is not rate of energy deposition (power), but spatial density of same.

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: > Also, I always boil my milk in the microwave when I'm making chai > (with the chai in the microwave, as well). It tastes fine to me. >

Microwav> Having a microwave-safe object in the vessel, like a plastic or wood

These things can all work, but not reliably or repeatedly. Any dry powder like salt or sugar will work well until it's dissolved due to both rough surfaces and adsorbed gas. Dry wooden spoons, ditto. A fresh teabag will work, but typically not a wet used one. Almost anything else, even roughened glass, will eventually passivate for a wide range of reasons. Chemists have a bunch of tricks like active stirring that aren't practical or aesthetic at home. A bit of clean gravel will work (we call them "boiling stones") as long as it's dried completely between uses. A cute reusable device is glass beads - like tiny marbles - called boiling beads. These work by bouncing around and making a fresh burst of small bubbles at each bounce. But the liquid can still superheat unless the container is shaken to start the process. A toothpick or single dry tealeaf (can be used) would work.

-DM

Thanks, that's good to know.

I don't do it anymore, however. My tastebuds are improving :). I got a Mini-Ibis electric kettle earlier this year while I was in LA on a road trip, dying for something good to drink at night in my room, and now use it instead of a microwave. I have to let it cool, of course, but I just pour the water into an open container, currently a large polycarbonate mug, and let the water sit while I go do something else.

We can prevent it from happening by not using a microwave to make tea. <G>

Okay, now try making tea this way, putting it into a thermos, and shaking it for 20 seconds or so. Pour it into a cup and try it. Is it less flat?

This is a quick way to re-introduce some dissolved oxygen.

--scott

I wish I could, but I am often on the road working in offices and facilities where the microwave is the only solution. People look at me strangely enough for using loose tea and an infuser.

I have on occasion made green tea from the near-boiling water that comes out of Continental water-cooled radio transmitters, though.

I agree that microwaved water is a little flatter, and I think it is indeed because of the dissolved oxygen issue, but I'd like a solution. I pour tea between cups a few times and I think that minimizes the differences, but I'd like to hear other experiences.

--scott

While I don't prepare water in the microwave, something about your opinion strikes me as needlessly emotional and reactionary. I doubt very much that heating with microwaves vs heating with electricity or gas conductively through metal is going to "impart" flavor into the water.

The theory here rests on the fact that someone would excessively boil the water in the microwave and therefore "deoxygenate" it. Assuming they didn't do this, nobody here has posited a scientific reason (with any empirical proof or at the very least evidence) as to why the water would taste any different.

well i think that would be very inefficient in re-introducing a fair amount of 'air' into the liquid. as i see it it would only create lots of frothing from the splashing and collision of liquid and the walls. i personally dont like frothy tea. also thinking about liquids with bubbles in them, shaking it wont put more bubbles in, but just excite them out of the liquid.

I think the issue is that it's impossible _not_ to excessively boil the water in the microwave, because it comes to a fast boil so abruptly.

Remember a typical microwave is throwing a kilowatt of forward power out, and it's all going directly into your one cup of water. That's a hell of a lot of heat in a small place.

--scott

If you say so ....

As I posted on Sept 25th 2007 (see archives) "During my Unilever Research days my team spent a few months trying to make a decent cup of tea using a range of microwave ovens, waters and containers. Commercial confidentiality and a fast failing memory preclude my giving details but suffice to say the microwave method was never included on the pack instructions (in the UK at least)."

Various teas made in various ways with a range of waters in a series of microwave oven types and powers (clean not with kitchen smells included) all failed to match the quality of control teas brewed in the traditional British way. While Marketing Dept dearly wanted a microwave "claim" we could not deliver. This was sharp end not blue sky so we never homed in on the science, nor yet have I subsequently heard anything that convinces me of the real reason(s) for the failure of the microwave oven to produce a good cuppa - it just don't.

Nigel at Teacraft

Thanks, Nigel.