Beer outing in Germany ends in suit

Beer outing in Germany ends in suit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents gave OK; but school disciplined kids

By Dan Horn The Cincinnati Enquirer

Before their children left for Germany in March, the parents of 19 Mariemont High School students gave permission for them to drink beer with their foreign hosts so they could "experience the Bavarian culture."

Some students enjoyed the experience a little too much.

Seventeen of the students, when they returned home, were suspended for drinking in violation of school rules, setting off a battle between parents and school officials that will head to federal court next week.

The parents say school officials left it to them to decide whether their children should be allowed to drink while in Germany and that any punishment for abusing the privilege should also be left to the parents.

The school board later reduced the suspensions to after-school detentions and community service work, but some parents remain angry about the discipline and worry about a black mark on their children's academic records.

The parents of two students sued school officials this week in U.S. District Court, seeking a judge's order to prohibit the school from acting against the students.

"The school is trampling the parents' rights and the children's rights," said Richard Ward, the stepfather of one of the students and the lawyer who filed the lawsuit. "The parents gave permission for the children to do what they did."

And when a few of the students drank excessively, Ward said, it became the parents' responsibility to discipline them - not the school's.

All of the students are minors, most of them high school juniors and seniors.

The high school principal, James Renner, declined comment Friday. Mariemont's superintendent, Gerald Harris, and the school board president, Peggy Landes, did not return phone calls.

The lawsuit says the teacher in charge of the foreign-exchange program told parents that the drinking issue was a "personal, family decision."

The parents were told the students would visit beer gardens while in Germany and would have the opportunity to legally drink beer there if the parents consented, the lawsuit states.

Ward said all of the parents gave permission.

"Each child and the child's parents specifically discussed the issue and, with a variety of admonishments, gave permission for the child to drink with the Germans," the lawsuit states.

Two students either drank only a little or not at all, and they were not disciplined when they returned home.

But according to the lawsuit and to school records attached to the suit, at least a few students drank excessively.

The suit states that one of the chaperone teachers became alarmed and tried to discourage the drinking, telling the students they were in "big trouble." The nature of the trouble became clear when the students arrived home and were greeted at the airport by school officials.

"Pandemonium ensued," the lawsuit states. "The meeting resembled a mob scene and turned into a bit of a shouting match."

Ward said the parents were upset because school officials had left the decision about drinking to them, then changed the rules later.

"I don't think there was a very clear policy," he said. "The policy that was enunciated was one that clearly put the ball in the parents' court."

Judge Susan Dlott is scheduled to meet with lawyers on both sides of the dispute Monday. She will be asked to determine whether the discipline imposed by the school violates the students' due-process rights under the U.S. Constitution.

As the legal battle continues, the families who sent children to Germany are preparing to welcome German students into their homes as part of the exchange program.

Ward said the German students are expected to arrive in a few weeks.

E-mail snipped-for-privacy@enquirer.com.

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Reply to
Garrison Hilliard
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What crap. No wonder this nation has a problem with underage drinking. With all these neo-probabation fanatics running around making it look like anyone who drinks has a "problem" moderation gets thrown out the window.

--Dan E

Reply to
Braukuche

Hello Garrison,

I am from Germany and would be happy if you could give me some further details on the story and the results of it.

Best regards and Prost,

Bastian

Reply to
Bastian

Judge ponders beer dispute

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents say students unfairly punished

By Dan Horn The Cincinnati Enquirer

A federal judge will decide next week whether to intervene in a dispute between Mariemont High School officials and the parents of children who were disciplined for drinking beer during a school-sponsored trip to Germany.

School officials say the students, all minors, were punished for violating school rules against drinking alcohol. The parents contend that punishing the students is unfair because the school left the decision on drinking to them.

The parents of two of the children sued in U.S. District Court last week, seeking a judge's order prohibiting the school from taking disciplinary action against the students.

Judge Susan Dlott decided Monday that she will hear arguments from both sides next Monday.

The dispute arose in March when the 19 students returned home from the foreign exchange program. Chaperone teachers complained that most of the students drank beer during the trip and that a few drank excessively.

Seventeen of the 19 students were suspended, but the punishment has since been reduced to after-school detentions and 30 hours of community service work.

The parents who sued say they do not dispute that some of the students drank excessively or that punishment might be in order. But they say the parents should decide that punishment.

They claim school officials told them before the trip that drinking in Germany, specifically at beer gardens, was a "personal, family decision."

But the school's lawyer, Bronston McCord, said Monday that no one condoned drinking. He said the teacher who organized the trip told parents that the German host families might have different attitudes about drinking and that the students' families needed to discuss that before leaving.

"He did not imply or infer in any way that they could run the streets drinking themselves into oblivion," McCord said. "No one ever told them they could go to beer gardens and drink."

The school has given the students until May 30 to complete their detentions and community service work or risk further discipline. The lawsuit asks Dlott to intervene before that deadline.

Reply to
Garrison Hilliard

Thursday, April 29, 2004 Dad's Law: No drinking! End of talk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last summer, my 14-year-old son called me at work. From Europe.

"So how do you like Amsterdam?" I asked.

"It's great if you're a drug addict," he joked.

The phone sounded like he was in Loveland. But the streets of Loveland are not spiced with the musty smoke of burning hashish. Pot and prostitution are not sold like peanuts on the corners of Cincinnati.

But they are in Amsterdam. So, of course, I told him to experience the Amsterdam culture and sample whatever.

NOT.

We told him before he left that Dad's Law is enforced unilaterally, regardless of international borders or the United Nations Security Council.

And Dad's Law doesn't care if 7-year-olds knock back cabernet with their Happy Meals in France, or if kids chug steins of high-test lager at beer gardens in Munich. Foreign customs can be fun and educational. But Momma don't allow no cannabis cafes or chardonnay milkshakes around here.

But some parents in Mariemont gave their kids permission to drink beer on a school trip to Germany, to experience Bavarian culture. And that has raised an important legal question:

WHAT THE HECK WERE THEY THINKING?

Two families are suing the school district because their kids were suspended. Turns out some of the kids, ages 15, 16 and 17, got blitzed on German beer, which is strong enough to make full-grown men dance to accordions in little leather shorts.

A couple of the kids couldn't handle Happy Hour. What a surprise.

After some parents pitched a screaming fit at the airport when the students came home, school officials backed off on suspensions for the 17 students and required community service instead. "Most are content" with that, said Mariemont schools lawyer Bronston McCord. But two families filed a federal lawsuit claiming the school violated parents' rights.

McCord said claims for monetary damages are "ludicrous," and the lawsuit "is not viable." Student drinking must be punished the same - at a prom or a beer garden, he said.

School officials were very clear that drinking was not allowed, he said, but urged families to discuss what could happen if alcohol were offered "in controlled environments with adult supervision by (host) parents."

Lawyer Richard Ward, a parent of one of the kids, said, "I have two words for that: Absolutely false." He said "the talk" given to parents was, "The tricky issue is that all these (German) kids go to beer gardens when they get out of schools at 1:15, that's where they socialize."

The decision was put in the hands of parents, he said. "They gave permission that was theirs to give, and now the kids are being punished for something they were told they could do."

I don't know who's right. But anyone who thinks it's OK for 15-year-olds to sample the "Bavarian experience" of after-school keg parties should have their adult licenses suspended until they pass Breathalyzer tests.

Americans have been brainwashed by "cultural sensitivity" to think we're a nation of international Gomers who desperately need manners lessons from France and Germany. Here's a better idea: I think Europeans need some remedial culture lessons from us.

Just remember, kids: You can be as far away as Paris or Munich and sound like you're still in Cincinnati. Just say, "No thanks, underage drinking is unsafe - because my parents would kill me."

E-mail snipped-for-privacy@enquirer.com or call 768-8301.

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Reply to
Garrison Hilliard

Puritanical American idiot. I was raised by an Italian-American mother and alcohol was never some evil substance stored away in Pandora's box so to speak. If we wanted a sip of wine or beer it was no big deal, and being a kid, when we did take a sip we natually grimaced and opted out for the soda. Europeans have a by far more healthy attitude toward alcohol than Americans and I would say we could learn a lot about their approach toward alcohol.

--Dan E

Reply to
Braukuche

that's what happens when a country is founded by Fanatically religious control freaks.

bic

Reply to
Bruce in Cleveland

Europe, nothing. There are states in the US that explicitly allow parents to serve their children alcohol. The guy is a yutz, plain and simple.

Reply to
Joel

I find it amusing (and pathetic) that articles like this are written by such ignorant people. The everyday Pils and Helles drunk in Bavaria is no stronger than every NAIL drunk in much of the USA. The only thing "stronger" is the flavor, as Bavarian beer actually gives an impression that hops and barley are component ingredients. The only difference is that these teenagers have been raised in an atmosphere of hypocritical repression and neoprohibitionism, of which the quoted author is a typical promoter.

Reply to
dgs

People have the same misconception about Guinness Stout, because it is such a heavy beer. It's only 4.0% ABV. Some ordinary U.S. beers like Pabst Blue Ribbon are 5.0%, and most of the ice beers are close to 6.0%.

Reply to
Slobby Don

Testify brutha! This is just another example of dumass irresponsible permissive parents in action. Anyone who lets their underage kid drink should be tossed in the pokey.

Reply to
Jimmy Smack

Ha Ha. rofl. I guess you`re one of these guys who was really "shocked" about Janets BoopShow, because some Kids maybe have seen a Breast. Oh my God, the Kids, they`re shocked for life !!! :)

Lets all educate our Kids the american way, so they do not swallow some beer, but run into schools to start a little shooting, hang all day arround in some malls to get the rich cultural offers over there.

Reply to
Timo Schindler

Read the news sometime. Without even searching, I can tell you school shootings have happened in Canada, Scotland, and France in the past few years. But yeah, we should go back to the Good Old days in Europe. 1938 anyone?

(Sorry, but ignorant people push my buttons regardless of nationality.)

Reply to
Joel

Judge: School wrong on beer

By Cindy Kranz Enquirer staff writer

A Hamilton County judge ruled this week that the Mariemont School Board should not have suspended 17 students for drinking during a trip to Germany last March.

Common Pleas Judge Mark R. Schweikert said the district mistakenly applied the school's code of conduct and did not properly inform students and parents before the trip that drinking would violate the code.

The decision overturns disciplinary actions only against the two students whose names are on the lawsuit, but vindicates all 17 students and their parents, said Richard G. Ward, the attorney who filed the lawsuit.

The ruling fuels the debate over whether schools have jurisdiction over students in school-related activities and in their off-hours.

Mariemont parents said that in a meeting before the trip to Munich, their understanding of German teacher Mark Nadobny's remarks was that drinking was part of the German culture, the students would be exposed to it, and it was the parents' decision on how to handle it, the ruling said.

The legal drinking age in Germany is 16.

"Knowing of the likelihood of such exposure while in Germany where this behavior is legal and accepted, the (school) failed to adequately communicate to the students or their parents its specific requirements regarding alcohol consumption and the sanctions that would be applied," Schweikert said in the ruling.

The school board argued that its rules applied to alcohol consumption on the trip because the students were on a "school-related activity."

"The record lacks any evidence that the code of conduct defines in any way the scope in time and place, or the beginning or end of a school-related activity," Schweikert said.

"In order to accept the (school's) argument one would have to conclude that the exchange trip was a 'school-related activity' 24 hours per day, every day during the trip, without regard to circumstances surrounding the activity, nature of supervision and control, and that the students could reasonably be expected to understand this."

When the students returned from the 12-day trip, school officials met them at the airport and informed them that they had broken the rules.

Ward, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of junior Stephanie Brosch and senior Erik Debbink, was pleased by this week's ruling.

"It means what we knew all along, which was the kids didn't do anything their parents hadn't authorized them to do, and the school was wrong in punishing them," said Ward.

But Gary Winters, who represented the Mariemont School Board in the lawsuit, said, "We think it's incorrect and we're likely to appeal it."

The students were initially suspended, but after a suspension appeals hearing, the school board modified the suspensions of 15 students to require community service.

The board said if 30 hours of community service was completed, the students' records would not indicate a suspension.

As a result of the ruling, besides a vindication of the students' rights, Ward said, "There should be no trace of this in their records, as far as I'm concerned."

E-mail snipped-for-privacy@enquirer.com

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Garrison Hilliard

Beer-drinking students vindicated

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Kimball Perry Post staff reporter

A year after more than a dozen Mariemont High students were suspended for drinking beer on a school trip to Germany, the students have been vindicated. Hamilton County Common Pleas Court Judge Mark Schweikert ruled this week that the school board can't apply its code of conduct to the trip, especially after the students were told that it would be up to the students' parents if they would be allowed to drink beer, as is the German custom.

"The preponderance of the evidence cannot be clearer that this is a valid description of the parents' and students' understanding of what was said," Schweikert wrote in ruling for the students.

"The parents clearly understood that when the students were separated from the supervision of the school, they were solely under the supervision of the host (German) parents."

That wasn't what the school board determined last year in suspending 17 of the 19 students on the trip, a group dubbed "the Mariemont 17" by their supporters, said Richard "Nick" Ward, attorney for two of the suspended students.

When the group returned, school officials determined that the drinking of beer in Germany while on the school trip constituted a violation of the school's code of conduct.

Two of the 19 students on the 12-day trip to Munich in March 2004 didn't drink.

The other 17 were suspended. Two accepted the suspension but 15 appealed and had their sentence modified to community service.

Two, though, hired Ward to appeal.

First, the appeal went to federal court, where a judge ruled he didn't have jurisdiction over an administrative body like a school board. That's when Ward filed the appeal with the Hamilton County court.

"It means," Ward said Friday of Schweikert's ruling, "that he totally reversed the school board's finding that (the students) violated the code of conduct." "Unfortunately, they've already been punished."

Despite that, he added, the ruling provided vindication for those suspended.

"They're elated," Ward said. "I think the kids feel much better about the whole thing now. I'm sure there's lingering bitterness about being improperly punished."

Publication Date: 03-05-2005

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Reply to
Garrison Hilliard

Beer-drinking students vindicated

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Kimball Perry Post staff reporter

A year after more than a dozen Mariemont High students were suspended for drinking beer on a school trip to Germany, the students have been vindicated. Hamilton County Common Pleas Court Judge Mark Schweikert ruled this week that the school board can't apply its code of conduct to the trip, especially after the students were told that it would be up to the students' parents if they would be allowed to drink beer, as is the German custom.

"The preponderance of the evidence cannot be clearer that this is a valid description of the parents' and students' understanding of what was said," Schweikert wrote in ruling for the students.

"The parents clearly understood that when the students were separated from the supervision of the school, they were solely under the supervision of the host (German) parents."

That wasn't what the school board determined last year in suspending 17 of the

19 students on the trip, a group dubbed "the Mariemont 17" by their supporters, said Richard "Nick" Ward, attorney for two of the suspended students.

When the group returned, school officials determined that the drinking of beer in Germany while on the school trip constituted a violation of the school's code of conduct.

Two of the 19 students on the 12-day trip to Munich in March 2004 didn't drink.

The other 17 were suspended. Two accepted the suspension but 15 appealed and had their sentence modified to community service.

Two, though, hired Ward to appeal.

First, the appeal went to federal court, where a judge ruled he didn't have jurisdiction over an administrative body like a school board. That's when Ward filed the appeal with the Hamilton County court.

"It means," Ward said Friday of Schweikert's ruling, "that he totally reversed the school board's finding that (the students) violated the code of conduct." "Unfortunately, they've already been punished."

Despite that, he added, the ruling provided vindication for those suspended.

"They're elated," Ward said. "I think the kids feel much better about the whole thing now. I'm sure there's lingering bitterness about being improperly punished."

Publication Date: 03-05-2005

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Reply to
Garrison Hilliard

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