Saison DuPont

"Bill Becker" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net...

Saison Dupont (nothing to do with the chemistry multinational) is probably the best remaining example of the historical Saison style (no need to add 'ale' - Saison is always top-fermented). The main difference with the traditional seasonal beer from half a century ago is todays way too high ABV. But the clean, hoppy, nearly fully dry palate is exactly right. A difference with its old concurrents of the West-Hainaut region, was that those had a very iron-y, ironoxyde taste, sourish on top of that. But due to its watersupply, the beers of Dupont never had this, even not prewar. The brewery is a magical puzzle of ancient, retro and state-of-the-art, more than worth visiting. Cheers, Joris

I confirm what bill says. a fantastic beer ! Two other are also not bad in the saison range From the same brewery you have Moinette and from another, you have Quintine

Hi Joris,

are you by the way The Joris Pattyn? anyway, nice to read you

you said " no need to add 'ale' - Saison is always top-fermented " does " ale " mean top fermented ? or what is the definition?

"Pascal Lotiquet" schreef in bericht news:43631590$0$31176$ snipped-for-privacy@news.skynet.be...

OOPS. "THE" Joris Pattyn? Joris Pattyn is my name, yes, but I can assure you I have never thought about myself with this article attached...

Ah - good question. Well, these days it is, though in fact it is a British anomaly. Later than any of the European beerbrewing nations, the then British Isles took up the use of hops, which was seen by many traditional brewers as a foreign, even devilish (well, in British minds the difference might be minimal ;^}) weed. Authorities tried to keep it out of the country for decennia. Anyway, when especially Flemish and Dutch immigrants brought over the use of this plant, and started to brew beer with it, Britain adopted the name "ale" (as in Scandinavian languages öl, øl, olut,...) for the old non-hopped brews, and "beer" (more like the Dutch and German words) for the newish hopped brews. But after some centuries, all beer was hopped, even in the UK. The old verbal divide was taken up again, but this time for the newish beers of bottom-fermentation, (again coming from the continent, be it Bavaria, Austria and Czechia rather than the Low Countries), whilst the top-fermenting brews were now called 'ales'. At least, this moniker has more sense than the newer fad to call bottom-fermenting beers 'lager' (from a German word meaning ripening, maturing in tanks or vats). For somebody used to lambics and Oud Bruins, this tag is rather silly... Cheers, Joris

Yep. As Joris pointed out, saison is by definition an ale, and Saison Dupont is probably the classic example extant today.

Saison Dupont is an amazing beer. Truly one of my top five in the world. It's very complex - I love the brett-like note in the nose (I'm not sure if there's actual brettanomyces - I'm guessing not) that gives it a little hint of mustiness, all the fruit you mentioned, the nice malt up front that is quickly overtaken by dryness. It's a remarkably refreshing beer too (which, if I recall the history of saison correctly, was the point, as it provided refreshment during the summer). As I said, one of my absolute favorites.

And it tends to get imported to the States in rather good shape, green bottle and all. What I get here in LA does not seem too terribly far off from the fresh bottles I had in Belgium earlier this year. The malty front seemed a little more pronounced over there, as well as that indefinable but recognizable attribute of being more obviously fresh. But the stuff I get my hands on here is hardly the worse for wear.

-Steve

Technically, "ale" means fermented with yeast from the species saccharomyces cerevisiae. It used to be defined as beers brewed with top-fermenting yeasts, but there are ale yeasts that are not top flocculators, and there are some lager yeasts that are not bottom flocculators (and some that just don't flocculate well at all). (Flocculation refers to where the yeast tend to clump and gather during fermentation, by the way; it's the process that creates the foamy head on top-fermented beer.)

Lager technically is feremented with s. uvarum yeast. Most exhibit bottom ferementing characteristics.

An additional difference occurs in the brewing process. Lagers typical go through a lagering period (from the German word for "to store") where fermentation is brought to an even colder temperature (lager fermentation usually occurs at colder temps anyway) and held there for a while before being removed from the fermentation vessel. This is not universal, however, as some ales are brewed this way.

-Steve

Well, welcome to one of the fun little differences between UK English and North American English. In another post, I outlined the differences between ale and lager from the North American perspective. In colloquial UK English, beer and ale are pretty much interchangeable, while, as you mentioned, lager is its own thing.

To me, that's like saying a "dog" and "spaniel" are the same thing, while "doberman" is an entirely different creature. They both fall under the same broad category (beer/dog) with distinct characteristics (ale-lager/spaniel-doberman).

-Steve

Feels weird, don't it?