Isinglass in Beer

I tried to send this comment once already but it didn't get posted - my inexperience I assume. Anyway here goes again.

There has been a lot of discussion in the European parliament over the past 18 months about the use of Isinglass as finings in beer and the desirability or otherwise of labelling bottles and pumps to inform anyone drinking the products that they contain a material derived from fish. After much effort by the British MEPs the conclusion was reached that it was not necessary to inform the public that British beers usually contain fish residues and the brewing industry was spared the prospect of having to write "Contains Fish" on the beer pumps. I am interested to hear that Sainsbury's have taken a different approach.

The almost universal use of Isinglass in the British brewing industry is curious - many people ask how on earth was such a process ever invented. I am sure the real origins are lost in antiquity but one thing is certain - it is not necessary. It's use has no effect on flavour (either good or bad). The sole function is to speed up the settling of the yeast after fermentation (a financial consideration). If this clearing has to happen directly in the barrels (real ales) then this is very useful and quick. Leaving the yeast suspended too long is bad since the bursting of the cells can produce an undesirable flavour.

However the statement in Don's contribution:- "2/ It (Isinglass) has never caused a reaction to anyone who is fish allergen sensitive because of its highly refined state" is far from true. Fish allergy (like many other allergies) is highly species specific. One cannot predict whether a person who is allergic to cod, for example, will react to sardines or shark and vice versa. It is certainly well known that many people, who have serious allergies to shell fish, have no reaction at all to "real" fish.

One could argue that pure Isinglass is a collagen with a molecular weight greatly in excess of that of typical fish allergens and as such would not be expected to cause problems. However, an allergic response could be caused by the trace quantities of smaller fish proteins remaining in the product from the manufacturing process. Such materials would be expected to be soluble and remain in the beer even if the all the Isinglass had been removed (unlikely - it would probably take too long). The reaction it produces is, however, quite different to the immediate response caused by the smaller proteins.

It is difficult enough for vegetarians and vegans to avoid foodstuffs "contaminated" by animal products and the unwitting consumption of such materials would no doubt cause them much mental anguish. However, it would not constitute a danger to health. The same is not true for persons with serious allergy. (This is no different from the peanut problem - many manufacturers of chocolate declare that their products "cannot be guaranteed to be free from peanuts" because of chance contamination from manufacturing equipment). Of course, most people who have such extreme allergies are already well aware of their problems and would not be seen dead drinking British beer (sorry!). Unfortunately, this might not be the same for a visitor who could not know that draught beers probably contain fish.

The fact that Isinglass is not necesary for the production of high quality beers is well illustrated by the German market. It is simply not allowed to use materials which remain in the beer (the famous Reinheitsgebot). I think one cannot accuse the Germans of making bad beer - they certainly drink an awful lot of it - much more than in the UK. Even the biggest brand in the world (don't tell me what you think of it) - Budweiser ex USA - uses no Isinglass. Budweiser and Pilsner Urquell from Check Replublic don't either.

After all that, you might find the following very strange. In Germany, Isinglass and gelatin are used in wine production - gelatin got a bad name with the BSE scandal so up went the Isinglass usage. In France, Isinglass is used in the preparation of sugar confectionery (the icing on the cake so to speak). Fish gelatin is used in many countries as a normal component of sweets. One does not find the declaration of any of these materials on the packaging.

Fortunately, there aren't many of us (i.e. people with extreme fish allergy) left!

Happy drinking! Ellerman12

Reply to
ellerman12
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Lagers... isinglass is used to fine cask ale (real-ale, as in the name of the group). It's pointless in lagers or keg ale: in the first case because even in those few instances where the lager is not filtered, the yeast settles out naturally over a very long time (in ale terms); and in the second case, because the beer is filtered.

Isinglass is markedly more useful as a fining agent, as it continues to fine on secondary agitation of casks, whereas gelatin does not. Isinglass is used in the UK and by most cask ale producers worldwide because of this nature.

Reply to
Jamie McDonell
Reply to
The Submarine Captain

Another factor making the Pure Beer laws meaningless was the poor quality of German malt - containing a high proportion of unmodified grains. So a brewer thinking he was using pure ingredients was in fact using far more adjuncts than say an English brewer of the time.

Reply to
valeofbelvoirdrinker

-- It allows the use of sugar, dextrose and non-barley mated cereals in

The term "lager" simply means that the beer has been stored , in fact lager goes back much further than 1516. Simply put , brewing was difficult during warm weather so extra was brewed in winter and stored for later.No lager would be drunk during winter of course - there was no need. As for bottom fermenting yeasts - many lagers are brewed using top fermentation , particularly in Eastern Europe where open fermentation is common.

Reply to
valeofbelvoirdrinker
Reply to
The Submarine Captain

I quote Graham Wheeler from his "Home Brewing" book - he is a very knowledgeable person indeed . "The word "lager" is German for storehouse : a lager beer is a stored beer and that is all! It matters not whether the beer is pale or dark , fermented by a top working yeast or a bottom worker , whether it is infusion mashed or decoction mashed or whether you drive an XR3i or ride a push bike." and later "It may come as a surprise to you that one of Britain's most popular commercial lagers is brewed using pale malt , English hops and the infusion mash system." He also mentions the widespread use of top fermenting yeasts in lager production on the Continent. IMHO , the characteristics now commonly associated with lager are (relatively) quite recent developements such as the availability of bottom fermenting yeasts , the decoction system and so on.

Reply to
valeofbelvoirdrinker

Hm. I think you mean Josef Sigl here - the brewery in Obertrum, Austria, as opposed to the Stiegl brewery in Salzburg.

And good beers they are, too. Sigl's Trumer Pils is a fine drop.

Reply to
dgs
Reply to
The Submarine Captain
Reply to
The Submarine Captain

I am not a vegetarian but even so I find it uncomfortable that British beer may contain fish protein/DNA.

A few vegetarians (and even surprisingly 1 vegan) I know were unaware of the fact and for them the fact is more than just uncomfortable and actually quite offensive. Sainsbury's should be applauded for allowing people to access basic facts and make a choice as a result.

All food, and beer is food (!), should be labelled in terms of ingredients.

Actually, to be fair, a bottle of beer I bought in Asda earlier today described in a bolder and larger type face - "protein derivatives from various sources" - a vegetarian friend told me that this is a well known code for vegetarians beware!

Sainsbury's has however gone one further and presented the word "Fish" in a larger bold type.

Gareth.

Reply to
Gareth

That's interesting - is there anything I can easily access that describes this in more detail?

Gareth.

Reply to
Gareth

I don't know.Quite clearly in the past they didn't know the percentage modification , but apparently the English produced much better malt , whether because of the climate or processes or both I don't know.In the 19th century the decoction method was introduced to mash malt on the Continent as the infusion system couldn't produce the clear pale beers such as were becoming fashionable in the UK. Must remember that the vast majority of beers were dark up till then.

Reply to
valeofbelvoirdrinker

My small contribution wasn't really intended to spark off an attack on German beer brewing methods. Rather, I wanted to point out the undesirability of having ingredients which could effects nobody appears to have considered. Gareth hit the point with his statements

"I am not a vegetarian but even so I find it uncomfortable that British beer may contain fish protein/DNA.

A few vegetarians (and even surprisingly 1 vegan) I know were unaware of the fact and for them the fact is more than just uncomfortable and actually

quite offensive. Sainsbury's should be applauded for allowing people to

access basic facts and make a choice as a result.

All food, and beer is food (!), should be labelled in terms of ingredients."

I agree completely with these sentiments. Unfortunately, it's one stage worse than that - for some people it can be lethal.

ellerman12

Reply to
ellerman12

If people want to adopt these peculiar dietary principles, they should take the trouble to inform themselves better.

The use of isinglass is hardly a big secret, and nor is it a recent development.

The failing is not so much in the labelling of food products as in the dismal standards of food education in this country.

d.

Reply to
davek

Yes, and "gay" still means "happy" to some people.

d.

Reply to
davek

ERM: the COOP have been labeling Isinglass on their own labe beers AND WINES for a couple of years - credit where it is due.

Reply to
<freeminer

Yes, to gay people.

Gareth.

Reply to
Gareth

It is kinder not to tell them.

Reply to
Ed Avis

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