Gaggia Cubika Coffee Machine

"Charles Turner" ha scritto nel messaggio news: snipped-for-privacy@bt.com...

I don't know your machine, but if you go to

when was your coffee roasted? stale coffee delivers ever smaller amounts of crema

Hi,

It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of different types.

If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.

I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!

Charles

You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best, they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type of beans, the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make crema and a decent tasting shot.

Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable difference in your espresso shot.

Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted on the day of purchase.

R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

Charles Turner wrote:

Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.

Regards,

Charles

there are really only 4 factors, as the ltalians would say:

machine grind ( coffee (see above) technique (loading / tamping)

so if this very same coffee w/ the very same grind can do well on another machine that leaves us with your

machine! [assuming it is scrupulously clean]

temperature and / or pressure.

dave

(I have machines with very stable, controllable temperatures, and regulated pressures.)

I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same coffee in other machines? You won't get much crema from stale coffee. If the other machines had crema enhancer disks in the portafilter the aerated bubbles you see are not real crema, just aerated bubbles. Crema is created by the emulsification of oils and other compounds in the coffee. This is done with fresh coffee, freshly ground under the heat and pressure in a properly adjusted espresso machine. You don't get that from a crema enhancer that just sprays the coffee through a small hole, aerating it and creating bubbles.

R "surely I'm still miss> Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a

Hi,

just an amateur here, but I noticed a distinct difference between even machines of the same make and model.

I've noticed that the temperature that the water is heated to, influences the crema. I can't say what effect either the coffee, or the machine timing would have on it, though. Coffee is a complex drink, with many variables going into a recipe. Unless you can isolate everything, you'll always have differences.

- kinda like wine, that way.

No, you did miss the point.

As I said I have used the same coffee in different machines producing a good crema (I don't now have these machines), I have NEVER used a "crema enhancer disk" so I assume there is a problem with the Cubika machine, just not sure how, or whether it can be resolved.

Best Regards,

Charles

PS Might buy a different machine for Christmas! Any recomendations?

Howdy Charles! It depends on your expectations & restrictions;

• what's your budget
• do you want consistent "God Shots" or do you primarily have milked drinks
• do you prefer the S/S industrial look that's currently in vogue
• are you willing/capable of buying a machine & upgrading it yourself

There is no *perfect* machine. They're all about compromises; size for features, convenience for shot quality, price for machine quality, etc. For my money it's impossible to find another brand of machine in Gaggia's price range that produces the same quality coffee.

I don't know why you are not getting the same results as with the other

machines DO NOT GET THE CREMA ENCHANER DISK, the crema it makes is not

real it will only mask progress or failures in your technique as crema is

one of the byproducts of good preparation.

You also may want to try temperature surfing by throwing the steaming

switch and then hitting the brew switch at some point before the water

gets to steaming temperature after some trial and error you will know at

how many seconds to throw the brew switch after activating the steaming

coils.

Sour taste and very light crema is usually brewed at too low a

temperature and too high will produce bitterness and burnt taste with

thin dark crema or even good looking crema sometimes but bad taste.

Crema is just one of the factors.

Do the other machines have crema enhancing portafilters? if so maybe

they are just making so and so coffee look asthetically pleasing

(interpretation a big head of phoney crema) and your machine is producing

a more honest representation of outcome due to coffee quality, tecnique,

grind, and/or tamp. Maybe not ???

How does the coffee taste ?? You did say you used whole beans (what

kind and their roasting date I know nothing about) and ground them (with

what kind of grinding device ?), BUT you also mentioned PREGROUND which

is a NO NO (that is one I can answer)

Since most US espresso shops produce swill even the so so espresso with

or without milk may be a much better tasting alternative so if you like

the taste (is it better or as good as what the other machines make?) then

I wouldn't worry about it.

There are a few reviews on this machine at this site

I re-read your original post. Where did you say you used the same coffee in different machines? If you did not know what a crema enhancer was how do you know those machines didn't have them?

LaMarzocco makes a nice espresso machine.

R "aw what's the po> No, you did miss the point.

Oops oops oops sorry about that I FAILED TO NOTE that you have NEVER used a crema enchancer disk well that takes one equation out.

Hmmm I am now thinking different size portafilter maybe ?? Deeper portafilters with a smaller diameter are more forgiving than portafilters with a wider diameter and less deph also these machines may produce different pump pressures they usually say 15 bars which is too much anyway but still capable of making a good brew (~ 8.5 to 9 bars is the standard) but some boast 18 bars these are maximum pressures and not the actual pressure when brewing as this is also controlled by size of grind and dose (brewing pressure).

What this all boils down to is that you probably need to change your grind size, dose, and/or tamping pressure. Hint grind size and dose are much more significant factors. Would I be correct to say that your gaggia has a wider 58mm portafilter and your other machines may have had a deeper

continued..

narrower (49 - 51mm) portafilter ?

When I say deeper portafilters are more forgiving I mean in regards to tamping tecnique not just dose and how hard you tamp. I find the wider portafilters are more prone to channeling if you don't perfectly spread out the coffee evenly which can be complicated when it clumps together which happens often with doser grinders like my super jolly rather than sprinkle evenly throughout the portafilter.

So I would in addition to adjusting for different size portafilter, also do whatever you can to ensure as even a dispersal as possible and tamp with manic perfection. I have been doing this for years and you may have too ? But I still am not a perfect tamper myself.

I would be interested in any results could you lets us know. My apologies for be presumptious

for your money.

Oh please Bub, enlighten us - which machine in the Gaggia's price range, $200 - $500, can match them for quality coffee?

Robert Harmon

-- http://www.t> for your money.

| I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to | make pretty good coffee.

The Cubika is not an especially good machine; it is essentually a Saeco with the Gaggia name.

- David R.

-- Less information than you ever thought possible: