OK, so a while back I purchased a few Dan Congs from Teaspring, one I really like the other I don't care for... Here's my problem: I need to order more. The one pack, that I like, is labeled Song Zhong and is very peachy and great. The other pack is labeled Feng Huang and contains very long leaves and is very orchid flavored and I despise it. Seems simple, right, just buy more of the one I like. Not so easy. Their website seems to state the opposite, that the peachy one is the Feng Huang and the Song Zhong as orchidy. Either their packaging was mislabeled or their website is mixed up.
Not being an expert, more of a neophyte, on Dan Congs I am a bit stumped and I'm sure someone here can help me out. Which is the real peachy heavenly oolong I need more of?
No expert on Dan Congs either (they all seem too bitter to me), but I think they're the only ones who can give you a definite answer and last time I was in contact with them (very recently), they were very responsive, replying on the same day! I really like teaspring.com!
The orchidy (labeled Feng Huang but believed to be Song Zhong) one also has very long leaves, almost the longest I've ever seen and close to something like Tai Ping Hou Kui except they are tightly furled vertically and long. Many I'd guess 3-4" and one leaf that was around
4-5". They are mostly a dark brown but some have streaks of a gold tone to them. It is exceptionally high quality tea with no doubt, I just do not like the orchid/flower/perfume scent or taste personally. I'd imagine this to be ethereal and exquisite to someone who does enjoy that type of flavor though like a green oolong/tgy but this is very very refined. Even though I intensely dislike it I've actually revisited it a number of times just because of how complex and unique it is.
Dominic, your post is encouraging. I've been following the discussion group for quite a while now, feeling too novice and intimidated to really contribute anything. It's refreshing to see that you guys are actually not omniscient with regard to tea. :)
Let us know which is the oolong you were looking for!
OK, now I'm frustrated. After Daniel emailed me back I am totally at a loss now to determine which is which. His response:
"Hmm.. you can compare the size of the dried tea leaves to make sure. Feng Huang Dan Cong has larger tea leaves compared to Song Zhong. Song Zhong's are also darker in color.
Also Feng Huang Dan Cong infusion is golden-yellow while Song Zhong should brew into reddish brown tea."
Here's the problem. The darker shorter leaved tea *IS* the one that brews the darker brew and labeled Song Zhong and peachy flavored. The lighter longer leaf that brews a pale yellow is labeled Feng Huang and is orchidy/floral.
I wish someone here has tried them to corroborate or set it straight. At this point my only hope is to order both and just waste the money on the floral one. On the website it is clearly listed as the opposite. Now I see why I am so confused, no one seems to know the difference.
I checked and I have two different Feng Huangs, one of them Mid-90s aged. Both from Hou De. I don't have any Song Zhong though. I will try the Feng Huangs a little later today and will post my experience! My problem with both were the bitter aftertaste, but I think I never tried them with gas-heated water before. I don't remember if they were peachy or orchid.
From my recent research due to this mess I have come to find that Feng Huang doesn't always refer to one tea but a looser definition sometimes that describes a type of tea or even a few different Dan Congs. I have a feeling that the Teaspring website is backwards and that the packages were not mislabeled. I am guessing the Song Zhong is indeed the peachy, darker, shorter leaf one. I have sent off one more email to Daniel in hopes of getting it right before ordering, and for my own sake. If we get it sorted out I'll post it here first... but I'd still love to know the outcome of your Feng Huang if you get the chance.
I tried the '07 winter one and it's got floral aroma, but in later steeps it develops a bit of a peachy note, too. It's never predominant, though, so I guess that's not what you want. I don't like it too much because of mouthfeel, it's watery and not smooth like most of my favorites. But I do like it much better with gas-heated water, just as I expected. I'll have to try the mid-90s Feng Huang later tonight and see how I like that one, and I'll post here afterwards.
By the way I'm not even sure I get tea flavours exactly right because the teas usually described as having plum-like aroma and taste, seem to me to have raisin-like aroma and nothing close to plums! Maybe my taste is off-base.
Thanks! I can see the peach notes being later in but the Song Zhong is like someone cut into a fresh ripe peach in the room as soon as water hits it. It actually is almost an exact duplicate of Snapple peach iced tea flavor but way more complex and deep.
I'm not sure how to get Daniel to revise his site, he seems pretty set on what he has but it is certainly mistaken on these two teas. There is no orchid in the Song Zhong. Either way at least we'll know the truth :) I placed a fair sized order for more now that I'm 90% sure it is the Song Zhong.
As for raisny/plum I'd say those are both the same seeing as how there is neither actual raisin or plum in the tea you are just going by analogy for reference. If there was actual plum in it and you describe raising that's the only way you could be considered "wrong." It is all subjective to a point, and sometimes it is a focus thing... you notice and fixate on a few flavors and then miss other ones or someone will mention a new one and then you begin to notice it.
Ever since I was little I was labeled a picky eater because I would analyze a dish and be able to tell if someone fudged a recipe or substituted something. I ate everything but could pick it apart if something was wrong or different. For instance a restaurant I frequent I was able to tell the chef used palm sugar one day in a Thai dish and when I asked they were amazed because she had only substituted it once ever and it happened to be that day and it is only a subtle component. As a laugh they asked what else was in it and I listed the recipe exact even noting white pepper and brand of Thai soy sauce. I've heard of "supertasters" but haven't researched it... I don't know if I'd qualify but I'd be close I'd imagine. The problem is slowing myself down enough to really do it, sometimes I hate it because it can be overwhelming and a bit distracting. eh, blessing and a curse I guess.
Do read the reviews for both of them, some but not all people describe both as peachy among other flavours. So, it would seem that if Daniel is wrong on this one, quite a few other people who tried it are wrong as well! It's interesting that no-one describes either of them as overwhelmingly peachy. It could be that the plant that gave the leaves for your particular bag of tea was located near a peach tree and got more peach flavour than they normally have. If that's the case, you just need to order the type listed on the label of the one you liked.
That's the trouble with tea, you never know when you will get exactly the same flavour you had in one of your favourite batches, if ever! That's one thing that coffee has over tea: always reliable, and stands up better to milk. I roast a couple of batches of coffee once every half a year, but I probably drink 50 cups of tea for every cup of coffee..
Yes, it is possible but the thing is that on the Teaspring website the Song Zhong page never states even the word peach in the taste description and clearly states orchid-like. The Feng Huang page again lists clearly peach and not orchid. I wish I could send each and everyone here a sample of each to show just how completely opposite they are. It is possible that there are slight hints of the other later in the steeps but that would take ignoring the 800-lb. gorilla in the room of the overwhelming peach or orchid to arrive at the descriptions on the website. It is so strong and non-subtle that I often offer the Song Zhong to guests who aren't into tea because it hits so hard with peach it is like a flavored tea, I'm not sure it is a fluke... we'll see, I placed an order so when it arrives I'll have the answer.
Very interesting post, quite in depth. I also have a dislike for the whole wine-as-alpha-dog perception. Partly for a unique reason I touched one in my earlier post: for me wine is almost too overwhelming especially due to the alcohol component. So many claim to have "super- taster" status in regards to wine but I'd imagine they couldn't so thoroughly enjoy wine if they were. I actually have trouble with many forms of alcohol because of this. When you are sensitive to tastes, alcohol is like a Mac truck and in my opinion. Wine has so many components that it becomes frustrating and overloaded for me and strong notes like char/tar/oak on top of the tannins and alcohol and acidity, etc. then you finally get to the flavors and the grape itself. I don't doubt that many have good palates but I think a lot of it is show and hype. A great show called "The F Word" with Gordon Ramsay on BBC often has noted guests decide between wines some a few dollars some thousands and quite often rare and prized wines are turned down in favor of a low end one. One vintner even despised what turned out to be his very own wine.
I do know I tend to stay away from overly acidic or astringent teas and perfumy/floral ones also which is what started this whole conundrum :)
It's going to be interesting how it turns out.. My guess is that when description on the site and tea reviews were written, the batch was not as peachy. By the way, one interesting thing I noted when reading reviews, not only for this tea but for some other teas I tasted recently, is how little there is in common across reviews for the same tea. For most teas, you can take any review and stick it in the reviews of other tea and it won't seem more out of place than reviews actually written for that tea.
[corax] on supertasters and some other related topics, some folks might be interested in this entry at CHA DAO:
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[dominic] [...] for me wine is almost too overwhelming especially due to the alcohol component. [...] I actually have trouble with many forms of alcohol because of this. [...] I do know I tend to stay away from overly acidic or astringent teas and perfumy/floral ones also which is what started this whole conundrum :)
[corax] well, those are two of steinberger's six characteristics [listed in that essay] of the super-taster; have you experienced any of the other four as well? i would imagine it's a mixed blessing to be a super-taster -- kind of like having perfect pitch: you can pick up all sorts of nuances that ordinary listeners/tasters cannot; but some of them will not be pleasant to you ...
I was extremely fascinated by your research and info and thought this could probably be a great discussion so I created a new thread dedicated to it rather than have it buried here. For those using Google Groups
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browse_frm/thread/f154d8047d62cab3?hl=en#) it is titled "Supertaster Discussion." I would have never looked into it had it not been for this conversation and the fact that you condensed a lot of dense information into such a great post as yours on Cha Dao. Great stuff and I hope it continues in the new thread, I'd particularly like to her your personal views and thoughts on it.
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