Effect of tea cups on taste of tea?

Can anybody point me to information which describes the effect of the quality of the tea cup on the taste of the tea, and in particular, the reasons for those different effects across different materials?

(For instace, the difference between drinking from average porcelain versus fine china.)

Thanks.

Andrew.

Reply to
Andrew Nesbit
Loading thread data ...

Andrew, I think it will be difficult to quantify the answer to your question, but I will try.

Frankly, I don't believe there to be much of a difference when looking at a cost-scale. However, here are things you may want to consider when purchasing some "teaware" in terms of flavor.

  1. How well will it hold in the heat?
  2. Will it impart any flavor to the tea?
  3. How usable is it?
  4. How does it "feel"?

A noet on #4: When drinking wine, a thin crystal glass is appropriate because it prevents the temperature of the glass from affecting the temperature of the wine much. I've found also that drinking from a think crystal wine glass "feels" better than a thick one. Can't describe it, but its part of the experience. The same may go for tea, although I haven't found it yet.

Steve

Reply to
Steven Hay

There are three cup variables that I think really affect the taste of tea:

  1. Cup size, where smaller around (1-2oz) is usually better for some reason. Think gongfu cups.
  2. Rim thickness, where a thinner rim seems to make for a more clearly articulated flavour. I've noticed this effect in wine and spirit glasses as well.
  3. Aesthetics. A really beautiful teacup puts me in a more meditative mood, increasing my sensitivity to the tea.

I tend to use only porcelain cups, though I will sometimes use glazed clay for pu-erh. I've never noticed a difference as long as the design was similar. Also my comments only refer to Chinese-style cups, not to an English tea service which I don't own.

Cameron

Reply to
Cameron Lewis

Though I have some nice, thin, handle-less porcelain Japanese tea cups, I don't use them much, mostly just when serving guests. My tea cup of choice -- for even gyokuro -- is one of glazed clayware from Hagi. It's thicker and heavier than the porcelain, but I consider this an advantage, as it holds the tea's temperature longer. And its handmade quality feels more comfortable in my hands and on my lips. Beyond that, though, is the nature of the the clay from which it's made, a very porous type characteristic of Hagi. The trapped air in the vessel itself imparts a more open flavor to the tea, as if allowing the liquid to breathe. By contrast, the same tea in porcelain is a sterile experience.

--crymad

Reply to
crymad

------------------------------------------^^^^^^

How does this work if the Hagi's glazed?

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

The glazing itself is also porous, and crazing is deliberate. Tea will eventually penetrate the cracks and openings on the surface, which alters the color of the piece as time goes by. I periodically submerge my Hagi tea cup in almost boiling water to maintain its well being, and the effect is effervescent, with a swarm of air bubbles being released in an audible hiss. You can find a picture of a very beautiful Hagi tea bowl with a general description of pottery from that area here:

formatting link

--crymad

Reply to
crymad

Lewis snipped-for-privacy@panix1.panix.com11/4/03 10: snipped-for-privacy@panix.com

If memory serves, and that's all I have right now, Hagi is a very rough textured and "open" "powder" glaze, not a shiney silicate type glaze. Also, the openness of the clay itself would still hold air and affect the tea quality. (Isn't Hagi under heavy Korean influence [maybe 17th C.]? Korean pots were the best ever made. Hagiware is "homely" in both the American and the British sense. Unless I'm thinking of someware altogether different.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

snipped-for-privacy@xprt.net/4/03 17: snipped-for-privacy@xprt.net

Hi,

If I read more, I'd post less. The Hagi bowl in the photos is exquisite. The crawling at the foot is magnificent. These are bowls that "need" the tea to complete them: Tea, the missing factor. I recently bought a set of shino saki cups in the blue and the white styles, for tea of course. Most teawares are too tight assed, IMHO. Good saki wares are looser and and more natural. But, that Hagi bowl is extraordinary. Would that I could afford it. And now, back to the $1.25 behandled mason jar.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

The color is very important. That gives you the first impression about the tea. An unpleasant color always spoils a little your experience and you will be negatively biased about the smell and taste. Even if it's not conscious.

Cups that are transparent , or clear or white inside allow you to see the real shade of your drink, or in some cases a modified shade. I have beautiful Japanese cups with a light blue flower pattern, pouring green tea in them enhance the pattern, new flowers appear. For Chinese teas with flowers or leaves floating in the cup, it's better to have transparent glasses, cups or mugs. Half-transparent china also make beautiful aesthetic effects. Dark cups are OK when the color doesn't matter (rarely) or to enhance the color of milk teas or macha. If the liquid is not good-looking, a decorated or artistic cup, or even a lid, can distract the attention from its appearance.

In high and low cups, the colour appears different. It seems much darker in the former. That can be unpleasant for black teas, that's why European table services usually have cups lower for tea than for coffee. But for shallow green teas, on the contrary, they can be more appetising when they look darker.

To drink, round large cups are more confortable. But narrow cups are better to smell the fragrance. That's why there are degustation sets with 2 cups, a long narrow one to smell it, then a lower one to drink it after. Cups shaped like a ball are a good compromise as the top is narrower and keeps fragranced vapor inside, and they are not too narrow to drink well.

The thinkness and thermic isolation count as the hands are more sensitive to heat than the mouth, so the cup needs to be thick enough not to get burnt, or designed with a handle. If you brew tea in the cup/mug/bowl, you'll pour hotter water, so heat resistant ceramics are necessary.

Smaller cups are for degustation teas (served with a glass water, in case you're thirsty), as those teas are served more concentrated, drunk in the

2-3 minutes after they are served. For teas served as "drinks", you need bigger cups, that keep the tea hot or cold long enough. Green teas tend to become bitter or sour if you don't drink them quickly after serving, and Chinese tea are often infused several times, that so you need a smaller size of teapots than for English tea (where you put a tea warmer on a huge teapot with one brew for several servings).

Kuri (that loves collecting tea cups, pots, etc...but is unfortunately unable to keep them in one piece a long time)

Reply to
cc

This "homely" description has been on my mind since reading your post. When I visited Hagi, I got into a mild dispute with the sales agent of a renowned Hagi potter. The agent's contention was that Westerners have no eye for the plain, unglamorous beauty typified by Hagi pottery. While I was finally able to get him to agree that with experience, such sensitivity could be acquired, he was headstrong in his belief that in their native state, Westerners simply have a collective incapacity for true appreciation.

Which brings me back to the word "homely", a word that most usually acts as a euphemism for "ugly". In Japanese, I would describe that tea bowl as "soboku", suggesting "simplicity, artless, ingenuous", but tinged with "pathos". Any word in English that approaches this concept?

--crymad

Reply to
crymad

homely?

Reply to
Chandler

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 00:21:30 GMT, Chandler tripped the light fantastic, then quipped:

Humble, perhaps?

Tee

formatting link
Remove no-spam to email me.

Reply to
Tee King

snipped-for-privacy@xprt.net/7/03 17: snipped-for-privacy@xprt.net

Yes, I meant "homely" in that way -- as you describe "soboku." It is my understanding, possibly wrong (correction welcomed) that in England the word "homely" indicates something comfortable and familiar in an "at home" sort of a way. I was also thinking of those elements of the bowls, so well displayed by the one on the page you linked to, that are part of the "homely" eclipsed beauty of these pieces, but are considered unredeemable flaws in the West. Includes such elements as crawling -- the glaze balls and beads up on the clay, and craising (sp), the hairline cracks in the glaze. And unfortunately, I know no English word and try to refrain from using a Japanese vocabulary in order to avoid allowing semantics to get in the way.

Hagi and Yi bowls are among the most extraordinary works of "art," if you will allow that word. They make any argument for a "craft"/"art" dichotomy laughable, at least in my humble opinion.

BTW, on my recent trip to Spain, I spent a few days in the Prado in Madrid, mostly to see the Black Paintings of Goya. One was a painting of a dog looking upward at some object out of the viewer's view. The texture, feel, and mood of the painting put me in mind of the teabowls (which, BTW) were orinally manufactured as "rice" bowls; found objects for tea, as it were.

Sorry for length.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

Yes, I feel the same. Though, a case could be made that the abundance of third-rate pottery at craft fairs throughout the nation hinders appreciation for the ones that are true art.

--crymad

Reply to
crymad

snipped-for-privacy@xprt.net/11/03 16: snipped-for-privacy@xprt.net

There is no derth of bad pottery available here for sure, and I'm critical enough, but most people are blind to the badness of one and the goodness of the other -- much like me most likely when it comes to painting. I can tell you what I like and what I don't and why, but I'm sure I miss most of the nuance.

The bowls, like the tea, make me feel a bit better about the world, at least for a few moments. That's something worth striving for, me thinks.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

If anybody is interested in history look at the posts between WNW and yours truly from a couple of years ago about yixing teapots as art or craft. I'm in an antiques expo a couple of weekends ago and handled the most expensive teapot in my life. If was an iron Wedgewood from about 1825 with a firm selling price of 5k. I recently saw my first antique sake serving set and immediately thought it would be great for gongfu. I don't know how you would get the leaves out because the lid is so tiny. It would be ideal for a CTC. I can't remember the last time I saw a sake set for retail.

Jim

Reply to
Space Cowboy

DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.