First snowflakes of the season

I decided to try some Shui Hsien from my local tea shoppe over a commercial brand from Chinatown when I saw snowflakes yesterday. I drink my share of Chinese black teas like liubao,liuan,shu and one day eventually order a slab of Qian Liang. Ive never seen it said but I think Shui Hsien is fermented. The infused leaves are only comparable to other fermented teas. They look cooked or ripe. The roasted taste reminds me of a single fermented shu. Sometimes you see the term Lao Cong which means old bush to describe this tea. In other parlance it is described as a Rock oolong. It does have the long twisted dry leaf of the Rock teas. I have a wide selection of those and no taste comparison. Looks like I have something to research when the first blizzard arrives.

Jim

Reply to
Space Cowboy
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You mean the way the leaves are stiff, not supple like sheng Pu'er or not-very-roasted oolong? I don't know this for a fact, but I surmise it's the heat (roasting or pile fermentation) that embrittles the leaves. I'd love to see something authoritative about this.

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

I compare it to puer pile fermentation that creates loose shu which I call single fermentation. When the pile fermentation is cut short it is called mao which is steamed and pressed into sheng cakes. The factories do another proprietary fermentation which I call double fermentation which is typically compressed into shu cakes. The only other fire roasted tea I have is Lapsang Souchong. You can smell the smoke and the wet leaves an oxidized reddish oolong. Unfortunately when I plug in Shui Hsien fermentation into Google I get the 125k hits that use fermentation when they mean oxidation. I just cant get around the infused black leaf which looks fermented to me.

Jim

Reply to
Space Cowboy

I'm very fond of Shui Hsiens, but I've never had one that really resembled shu at all. I've always considered them a Wuyi Shan yan cha variant, like a da hong pao with a sour/tart overtone. Perhaps yours was an odd sub-variety or perhaps even a different tea that improperly borrowed the shui hsien label?

-Charles

Reply to
Iggy

No, maocha isn't pile-fermented before being pressed into sheng (raw, green) cakes. Pile fermentation is the defining characteristic of shu (cooked, ripe) Pu'er, whether loose or (later) pressed.

It's true that some sheng these days is subjected to oolong-style bruising and oxidation or fermentation these days before being pressed. But pile fermentation is a whole other thing: a microbial process that generates its own heat as it progresses.

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

Okay Ill settle for charcoal roast to describe making HS. Charcoal is often used to describe shu. HS was never one of my favorite teas till I started to appreciate shu or black teas in general. Why looking around on the Internet yesterday I saw enough Shades of Shui to indicate the taste might vary enough. What is your opinion of the variety.

Jim

Reply to
Space Cowboy

Well, it is one of my main staples and I can say that it is such a wildly divergent mix that the name alone almost means nothing. I have had Shui Xian's that are barely roasted and have a more greenish oolong flavor all the way to what I can easily say was the best I have and unfortunately probably will ever have since I cannot find more which was double roasted and so brittle and baked that it was almost charcoal. Almost is the key word here because it was so expertly crafted that it was at the brink of charcoal/ruin but not quite and instead it was just magical. The leaves wouldn't even soften until after 4-5 steeps.

Sometimes the first infusion is the only one worth anything in that the smoky/charcoal/raisiny/tobacco flavor is just on the outside of the leaf and after one infusion it is all given up and you are left with a mid to poor oolong and nothing more.

A while back Houde Asian art had one that is so different but enjoyable which was chocolatey and smooth and had characteristics and flavors I've not seen in any other Shui Xian.

After a few years now of dedication I can say what I look for first is a very heavy roast, the heavier and deeper the better. It doesn't guarantee that it will be any good, just that the chances are better. The bad part is that it is so hard to find anything along these lines since no one seems to be heavily roasting their tea anymore and even the ones listed as heavy roasted are barely medium.

- Dominic

Reply to
Dominic T.

You describe almost to a T what I got from my local ENGLISH tea shoppe on discount. I would say after four steeps I could still dip the leaf in an ink well and be legible. This is the first tea Ive gotten from a tea shoppe that is an order of magnitude better (night and day) than what I could find on commercial ethnic shelves like SeaDyke in this case. There are a couple of more commercial brands I might try since I now have a reference point.

Jim

...the shu angle still isnt a stretch...

Reply to
Space Cowboy

I will buy what you have left. Not joking. (or pass along the shop and I will call them instantly.)

- Dominic

Reply to
Dominic T.

I could have used the word closeout instead of discount. I didnt pick up any extra. Ill check with the shoppe owner over the weekend and let you know if there is any left. Im also going to another Puer tasting this weekend. Ill take some along and compare to the Chinese shoppe for curiosity sake and let you know. I dont think it too hard from your description for others to know a source if they have some. I did.

Jim

Reply to
Space Cowboy

No luck at the near local Chinese shoppe yesterday. Just light and medium roasts. One of the jars actually said taste similar to Puer! Ill try the local English shoppe probablly tomorrow to see if they have any left. Im having some right now to help my Puer hangover.

Jim

Reply to
Space Cowboy

Alas nothing left at the local English tea shoppe. I got a curt we are not going to carry THAT again. I said too bad because I really liked it and from what I understand from somebody who knows the piece de la resistance. Now I have to put mine in the vault for special occasions. Nah Im over that. One day Ill shed a tear and say goodbye to the last cup.

Jim

Reply to
Space Cowboy

Damn, I started to spread my last two of three cups a bit thin when I was nearing the end to conserve and then when there was no hope left I just had one awesome gaiwan full that I steeped until I could read through the leaves. I dream of that last cup when I drink just about every other tea. It slightly ruined me, and that was 2 years or so ago.

I saw that ITC has what they deem to be a very highly charcoal roasted one, at a pretty high price, has anyone tried that? I may tip-toe in with the 1oz sampler to see if it is as roasted as I hope, most often they come up short of that double roasted I had. I have also been thinking of re-roasting some that I currently have but don't know the best method. I was thinking like ~150 degrees in the oven on a baking sheet maybe. I just don't know the best temp and time to bake at, either way it still will lack that charcoal which makes it so special.

- Dominic

Reply to
Dominic T.

Maybe that charcoal taste requires .... charcoal?

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

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