Is it bitter or too strong? (Or, am I a wimp?)

I am currently drinking some black/green Puerh and I find it is the least bitter tea I have ever had. I actually favor either blacks or whites and these Puerhs over straight, normal greens because I almost always over brew or mess up my green brewing such that it is a really astringent thing.

Currently, I use about a third of a regular table teaspoon, or close to an actual teaspoon of Puerh and get about three good brews out of it. I use a cheap whistling tea kettle that gets the water close to, but not quite boiling. For the first cup I do about five to five and one half minutes of brewing. For the second cup I like at least five and one half. For the third I usually go for six minutes or more.

These puerhs are very smooth, but strong, and without any hint of astringency or bitterness. Actually, that is one thing I enjoy. I have messed up and way overbrewed them, and they still aren't too bitter for me to enjoy. I do that with a green, and it just...does not work.

I think I can tell the difference between bitter and astringent, but I'm often not sure if a new is bitter or just too strong. I usually cut down on the steep time. If it's still awful, then I conclude that it was too strong.

I've only tried 2 puerhs and didn't like either. They are too strong. This is a case where it is not bitterness.

First, I don't think you're a wimp. Since black teas brewed too strong are often also bitter, you may be tasting both too strong and bitter at the same time. I prefer to think of what you're experiencing as an issue of expectations.

a. Since you're doing taste tests, I recommend that you brew only one cup at a time until you determine the best brewing parameters for your palate. (Yes, 6 oz is the standard cup for tea; it allows room for the addition of milk for those who prefer their black tea that way.) Go back to your 18 oz. after you've got it figured out. Please note that you should perform these trials on each new batch of tea because subtle differences may surface from one batch to another.

I recommend that you brew to the minimum amount of time, stop the brew, and taste with a spoon. A brewing basket makes it easy to be precise because all you have to do is lift the basket from the water - if you don't have a basket, just keep an eye on the clock so you don't lose track of time while you use your spoon.

Continue the steep for another 30 seconds, stop the brew, and taste again. If it's good, you'll know which time was better and you're done. If it's not good, repeat the steps every 30 seconds until you get to the maximum time recommended or reach the point of "ahh."

If it's too weak at the maximum time, repeat the test using more tea.

If it's too strong at the minimum time, repeat the test using less tea.

b. Yes, some Darjeelings are better brewed at a lower temperature. Since this is under the category of "Oolong Teas" and is described as an oolong Darjeeling, and isn't listed with Adagio's black Darjeelings, I'm confident that it will be better when brewed at lower-than-boiling temperatures like other oolongs.

c. Robust teas such as Assams are often consumed with milk. In fact, an Assam may require milk to bring out the nuances. Another robust tea such as Yunnan or a medium tea like Ceylon can go with or without milk. OTOH, a medium tea like Keemun and a delicate tea like a Darjeeling are usually enjoyed without milk. Therefore, after you find the optimal brewing parameters, experiment with the addition of milk until you get your "ahh" or conclude that it just isn't your cup of tea.

d. Yes, brew your black teas using boiling water. I do NOT recommend your lowering the temperature for your Yunnan. As for the people at higher elevations, they typically have to wait longer for their water to come to a rolling boil.

HTH.

good (does not mean expensive) blacks taste great at any temperature, including Yunnan blacks which i've done in every temperature from room temp to boiling.

Black teas are noted for spewing out tannins. They give the tea a strong taste and will stain anything it touches. Bitter is more tannins than desired. You didnt say what kind of leaf grade you were working with. The finer grades get bitter faster. Id X the 5 minute brews. The weights and times for a pot at 3 minutes feel about right. The Indians usually drink Assam as Chai. Assam is an ancient taste. I wouldnt classify Yunnan Gold as bitter. I classify it as an Aroma tea, the more the better. If it feels harsh in the throat and stomach it is bitter. Some like me call that desirable. See my previous posts on grotty greens. You may not like Black teas.

Jim

PS Now Im hallucinating back to the sixties drinking some Yunnan Black Gold. There was that one song by a black group about Time, where the song drifts off into a cacophony of sound after a rim shot ending present time. You start a cup in a state of time and end up in another.

On Mar 13, 1:26 pm, Square Peg snipped-for-privacy@Round.Hole wrote: ...que paso maestro...

good (does not mean expensive) blacks taste great at any temperature, including Yunnan blacks which i've done in every temperature from room temp to boiling.

Consider his source.

I used to brew just 1-2 cups when testing a new tea. I changed to 3 cups because I discovered that I often feel differently about a tea in the 2nd or 3rd cup than I did on the first sip. (And, I have a 3 cup thermos. ;-))

This is a great suggestion to get a rough first guesstimate on the time. I'll give it a try. One spoonful would certainly be enough to tell if it's way too weak or has become bitter.

I usually use an ingenuiTea, but I do have a basket infuser. I think I'll just let the steep continue and take a spoonful every 30 seconds or so.

I have been resisting using anything in the tea. I guess I should rethink that.

How does this work if I brew 5-6 cups for a large thermos to be drunk over a day at the office? Is there any problem adding the milk to the thermos? I like being able to stay at my desk and just pour from the thermos into my cup. I wouldn't want to have to go to the break room for milk. I suppose I could have some of those little creamers that don't require refrigeration.

That's what I've read. I did try some of the blacks at lower temperatures. I don't recall how that went. I think one or two tasted better at 190° or 180°.

If I recall my physics correctly, water will never exceed the boiling point. Here's what Wikipedia says about the boiling point of water at various elevations (inches of Mercury (Hg)):

Hg Boiling Point ~Elev (ft) Location

Someone living at ~6,000 feet would not be able to get water hotter than about 200°F.

That has been my experience. Why are so many "experts" so adamant about a rolling boil? I can't find the link right now, but one said something like, "The single biggest mistake in brewing black tea is not getting the water to a rolling boil.".

I still don't know the difference between "bitter" and "too strong".

I guess I could brew a pot at 10x strength (20g/cup) for 30 seconds. That would certainly be too strong and should not be bitter.

I provided links to the vendor. That's all I know. (Actually, that's more than I know.)

That's what I've concluded.

And how would that differ from how a pot that was too strong, but not bitter, feel?

I don't recall ever having anything feel harsh in my stomach.

Possibly. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. My son loves dark beers, which I find unbearably bitter.

No, you may add milk to the thermos. But, wouldn't that cool the tea/warm the milk? I'd prefer to pour tea into a cup and then add milk to avoid ending up with a thermos of lukewarm milk tea.

Perhaps a small ice chest under your desk would work to hold your milk. I got a 4-can cooler sack for only a couple of dollars from campmor.com. Look around and see if there's anything else you might want or the shipping will be more than the merchandise.

The thing is, you've got too many variables to be varying the standards at this time. IMO, it's best to fiddle with boiling/not boiling after you find the best time and amount with boiling. But, since it's your tea, you're free to do with it as you want.

Heated water will also evaporate and if it's continued long enough, the pot will be empty.

Have fun with your taste trials!

From observation (and without checking the physics) I think that water at higher elevations actually comes to a rolling boil quicker than at sea level. As Square Peg points out, water at the top of Everest boils at 175.1°F or 79.5°C - the heat input required for this being significantly less than raising the same mass of water to 212°F - thus, given the same kettle (and rate of heat input) the water will achieve a rolling boil more speedily. The ultimate extension of this is to try the experiment in at 30 miles or so high when water will boil at ambient temperture!

Incidentally the main reason you cannot get a decent cup of (black) tea on an airplane is that cabins are pressurized to 9,000 ft where the rolling boil occurs at around 197°F

Nigel at Teacraft

I don't know if 30 miles is high enough, but it will at zero gravity. The formula for the boiling point is complicated:

It sounds like you are one of those who believes that black tea must be brewed at 212°F. Have you tried it at 190°F or lower? How is it inferior?

Bitter is puckering of the mouth, constriction of the throat, cramping of the stomach, each to some degree. The hairs on my neck usually stand up. Bitter isnt a learned taste, its automatic like unripe persimmon. Overcook any of the other greens like spinach, collard greens, turnip greens you'll get the picture. Strong my teeth ache, bitter my eyes hurt. Get some generic black tea bags, start adding to the dunks each time starting afresh . At some point you wont like the taste. That is bitter. If you never like the taste there you go.

Jim

Sorry, but you've described what I would call "astringent". "Bitter" is unsweetened chocolate, quinine, kudingcha.

/Lew

The advantage of the blacks in this regard is that you have only two parameters: amount of tea and time.

I don't know. I tend to use a lot of tea and brew for a short amount of time, but that's just me. The method you use also changes things... a small infuser will require different parameters than a brew basket or just tossing tea into a pot.

Some of them use CTC teas, which brew differently than orthodx teas. Most of them just make lousy tea. In Denver, I find it very hard to make good black teas, and in Tibet they pollute their tea with rancid yak butter, even.

I have never had decent tea on an airplane, even when I have brewed it myself.

And a teaspoon of typical tea would be a good start. I think your times are kind of long, personally.

Also be aware that some black teas out there are meant to be consumed with milk.

--scott

That's what I thought. In medicine, an astringent is a substance or preparation, such as alum, that draws together or constricts body tissues and is effective in stopping the flow of blood or other secretions.

Bitter, to me, is more acidic or biting.

Now, how is bitter different from "too strong"? In your chocolate example, does the sweetener make it less bitter or less strong?

For some substances, it's easy. Salt, for example, can be too strong, but I'd never call even pure salt bitter. Same with onion and garlic.

Green tea is also farily easy. I don't like most senchas if they are very strong at all, but even a weak sencha, if brewed too long, will become bitter, which is a different taste.

With black teas, I have more trouble telling the difference.

I am coming to the conclusion that using much shorter times will work better for me.

It would be helpful if they said that. ;-) Thanks

Uh, I'm not the one who brought up the term "strong". I rarely find teas, at least, too strong.

Less bitter.

/Lew

I described the symtoms. You can call it a rose for all I care. Yeah calling it astringent makes it taste better.

Jim