A couple of brewing questions

I use around 3 mins for greens, lower temp for greens than whites works better for me, but I don't measure. I think 7 min for dark oolong is too long, for whites I use around 4-4:30 minutes. I would not use 5 minutes for black teas, for a good golden yunnan I'd use around 3:30-4:00, for an assam or ceylon I'd use around 2:30-3:00, but I have preference for lighter teas. In fact I mostly drink whites and greens.

Now pu-erh can be brewed for a long time, around

I measure by sight. I suspect I use 40-50% less leaf than recommended because I like lighter brews. It's so much up to a preference that using their guidelines isn't of much use IMHO.

Try not using the microwave. I used it once and it came out pretty bad, I have best luck with glass kettles on gas stove. Even glass kettle on a slow electric stove makes tea that to me tastes way off. Especially greens and whites. I would rather drink good water than tea (even made with good grade leaf) made from microwave or electric burner. I haven't used a fast electric kettle, afaik a lot of people here use it and it may be good, but I'm doubtful.

Did you even cover the pyrex? Especially in the case of black tea, temp has to be maintained at a high level, so a good pot is designed not to let heat out, and in england they even put cozies over the pot to keep it even hotter.

Sounds like it wasn't covered. Buy a cheap glass pot for around $25 (many places online, etc) - or a glazed earthware pot (important that it's glazed). It can be used with any kind of tea and is more suitable to tea brewing and handling than pyrex thingy.

Try three minutes and 3 spoons. Maybe you like light brews too.

Don't sound right to me. Not sure what it should be, probably a bit lower than

Yes, that's not accurate enough. There are scales for $10 on dealextreme.com that are 1/10g accurate or better. Reportedly very good for tea.

Yes, especially for greens/whites. For blacks I'm not so sure, but my guess is even for blacks glass is better.

I don't think such flavored teas are very good, anyway. Try to make it a little lighter if it was bitter, but I don't think there will be much variation in flavor, I mostly drink good whites and greens and golden yunnan and sometimes pu-erh; they're so much better. I can sometimes drink a simpler ceylon or assam, but I need really good teas every day or I will be unhappy! Not to stop you from enjoying the tea, it's just hard for me to recommend much in the way of changing/improving its flavor, because it's just a simple flavor. In a good pot that keeps temperature up there, it may get to be somewhat better.

Water is also important. Try spring water a few times to know how it should taste like in brewed tea. Many people use filtered water. Tap water is not good for tea flavor IMHO.

I've heard recommendations of using right-before boiling temperature for black teas, from a fairly reputable source. In my experience almost-boiling worked as well as boiling, but I mostly just use boiling for blacks.

Pu-erhs should always be brewed with boiling.

In regard to quantity/time, I noticed that if a green tea is a little boring/weak in flavor, it can be saved to some extent by using shorter brewing times and more leaf. Down to 1 minute and

I think these things are most important:

1. good tea
2. spring water, or at least filtered
3. clean kettle on gas stove (maybe some electric kettles are ok)
4. brewed in a closed glass or glazed ceramic pot where leaf can float in full volume of water (i.e. not infuser)
5. strained into some container that won't steal heat from tea (e.g. another glass pot or a large cup) - a thick ceramic pot is not very good for that in my opinion, cast iron pot or anything like that is even worse.

After these requirements are fulfilled, it's possible to play with amount of leaf and brewing time to further enhance the tea!

HTH!

I will probably get to where I can measure by sight or at least a teaspoon, but right now I want to get accurate measurements and keep a log so if I find something I like, I will be able to repeat it.

Is your point that the water must be brought to a boil quickly or that it has to be gas and not electric or microwave regardless of speed?

I did not cover it.

I'll try that

You may be right. I just tried 9 grams and 4 minutes and it was a lot more bitter (or at least what I am calling bitter). I'll try less tea and less time, too.

OK. I have quite a few things to try. Thanks.

Boiling quickly or slowly definitely has effect. Try it. Slowly boiled tea is sweeter and has less spark, less flavor. I generally prefer quicker boiled tea.

BTW forgot to add that it's good to aerate water before boiling, I do this by shaking the plastic water jug for ~15 seconds.

I'm not sure if a quick electric kettle will be as good as gas stove boiled water. I suspect it won't but can't give any proof or reasoning.

This will apply more to greens and whites and light oolongs than other teas.

I definitely will.

I don't understand how bringing the water to boil somewhat more quickly can make a discernible difference. It makes sense (to me) that letting the water boil for a long time can remove oxygen, but does that apply to an extra minute or two on the way to boiling?

Depending on the amount of water and the wattage of the microwave, I would think that the microwave could bring it to a boil about as quickly as a gas range. So I did a little test. I put 32 ounces of tap water in a saucepan on the largest burner on the gas range. I put 32 ounces of water in a 32 oz pyrex measuring bowl in my 1250 watt microwave. I turned on the gas burner to the highest setting and then hit the start button on the microwave and then started a stopwatch. Here are the readings for each container to (a) the start of boiling and (b) rolling boil:

(a) (b) Gas 5:28 5:58 Microwave 5:42 6:06

Looks like a dead heat to me. With more water, the gas range would do better and with less, the microwave would.

So, it looks like tea made with water heated on this gas range should taste the same as tea made with water heated in this microwave.

Agreed?

I'll add that to my test parameters.

Even if they take exactly the same amount of time to reach the desired temperature?

No, there was a very big difference between water I heated with slow electric range and slow heating by a spirit lamp, which I think should be very similar, if not the same, as butane or propane burner. Again, I'm no scientist so I don't know what the reason is for the difference.

I should add that I might not even care with simple black teas. With green and whites difference is very big, with high grade black like a golden yunnan, difference is still pretty big. With slow-heating electric range, golden yunnan is much, much sweeter. But it's already a pretty sweet tea and it loses some flavor like that.

Yes, that's my point exactly. I know for sure that with different boiling time there's a difference in taste. When boiling time is the same, I think there would be, based on my experiements with a spirit lamp and also based on experiments with heating slowly on a gas range.

Yes, I think I could. I don't have a microwave but once when I had one I tried to make tea and it didn't taste very good, the time to boil was about the same as for gas range with that amount of water. I do have a slow electric range and I could never make anything close to a decent cup on it. Spirit lamp is about similarly slow but tea comes out much nicer. I didn't time things exactly but I know that +/- 30% of heating time doesn't make that much difference. When the time is twice longer, there's quite a bit of difference.

You might want to experiment a bit now but if you don't see any difference, don't worry about it, but when you get into nice greens and whites, try my advice again and I think you'll be very pleased with results!

Do you have an opinion on why they would taste different?

I am especially curious about the gas vs electric range. Both ranges heat the pot, which heats the water. I can't imagine how the water could possibly tell whether the heat came from burning gas or a hot heating element.

OK, I'm done now. ;-)

i believe rainy explained his opinion clearly. if you do not find a difference, then that is you opinion.

everyone has differing opinions.

If something is a matter of fact, it is no longer a matter of opinion. People do not get to have differing opinions about facts. My suspician (and that is a matter of opinion) is that science might find there is no difference between waters boiled different ways, but the human olfactory response to the methods might make a great difference. Gas relates to one odor, and electricity relates to a quite different odor. Toci

Sorry, I'm late to the party, but I've been having computer problems.. and it's no fun when the computer guy has computer problems. :( It's time to finally build a new system I fear.

As to the brewing question... my advice is always this: Just as there are brewing instructions on coffee if you ever follow them you end up with mud. They want you to use more than needed because you then have to buy more, sooner, and the flavor will still be passable. Not optimal.

The best way to get a good idea of your preference is to experiment. I tend to go with a three step approach on a new tea. I'll go heavy on the leaf and the correct water and steep first. Then I'll back off on the steep time a bit if it seemed too strong or off. Then I will use a fair bit less leaf than suggested and the correct temp and steep. I will quickly tell if the tea benefits from extra leaf or not, and often it doesn't in most circumstances.

From there I then range around a bit until I hit the sweet spot. This works for me, but YMMV. When I first started it was with a regular coffee mug, tap water, a microwave, and dunking a stainless steel teaball in the hot water just long enough so it wasn't bitter. From there it was all about the journey and the trials and new flavors and techniques... that will all come in time. Just enjoy your tea for now however you brew it and my only suggestion would be to buy one sample or two with each order of something totally new of off-the-wall you may surprise yourself.

- Dominic

Instead of a tit-for-tat in general too much tea, too much time. Make life easy for yourself always use boiling water. You'll find you like some teas at the hotter temperature and some lower. Letting tea cool after brewing is a lost art. You'll never know if the way I prefer my teas is the same as yours. You'll discover the right taste by brewing a whole range of teas in a lot of different ways.

Jim

Square Peg wrote:

...im not a scientist...

In reference to the Earl Grey (1 tsp/cup for 5 min) or in general?

For blacks, right?

I, for one, cannot drink boiling water (or tea). I've never tested the actual temperature at which I drink it, but I would guess it is a lot cooler than most.

Of course, but I may be able to learn something by trying what you like. We probably don't like the saem movies, either, but if you told me you just saw one that you really liked and you said why, I may well go see if myself -- just on your recommendation.

Me neither.

I know they weren't directed to me but I figured I'd chime in with a quick to the point response since my last one was a bit of a dissertation. I'd say that is a fair amount of tea to water and time with boiling or just off boil water. I would probably shorten the steep to like 2-3 minutes personally but that is just me and I don't add anything to my EG.

Pi, Johnny Berlin, Big Man on Campus, Bully, Grave of the Fireflies, and Heima to name a few ;)

- Dominic

I tried it with 1/3 less tea and it was much better. Just a hint of bitterness. The first brew was 9 grams for 28 oz of water. The second was 6 grams for 24 oz. I will reduce that a bit more and try again.

I was right. We do not share a common taste in movies ;-)

Also, another good way of thinking about it is that a typical teabag contains 2g of tea but it is finely broken so more full leaf will be needed, but the 2-4g range is a good starting point when in doubt. As for film, my interests vary wildly but I tend to go more for the documentary or indie film over a blockbuster or action flick.

- Dominic

A good cup of tea should taste agreeable to anyone. Go into a tea shoppe and see if what they brew is close in taste to what you make. They are the ballpark not the benchmark. The new Chinese teas I mentioned in another post have brewing instructions on the back. It is a place to start not end or just ignore in my case. While I'm here I'll answer another concern. Tea is not multiplicable.

Jim

Square Peg wrote:

Hmmm... I don't think so. Taste in everything is very personal. I cannot stand beer or coffee. The best coffee in the world prepared by an expert would not be appealing to me.

Multiplicable?

Do you mean that twice as much tea may not be the right amount for twice as much water?

I assume that you are not referring to the tea plants themselves refusing to obey god's order to "go forth and multiply".

I find sushi agreeable if someone picks up the tab. Tea is not an alcohol. Tea is not an oil.

Tea is not proportional with respect to volume.

Jim

PS Thus Sprach Zarathustra. Nietzche figured out the logical dead end of philos> >

...zoom...

...zoom zoom...

Seems like you may be missing a "y"...