Oriental not

1. You don't.
2. Asian.
3. What is wrong with "oriental"?

Sasha.

I was once told (in a public setting) that Oriential is a word describing rugs...That was 15 years ago and since then I have tried to limit my use of the word oriental to only reference rugs...It was only slightly painful and it got the point across..ocp

Just don't start calling me occidental, and you're OK in my book.

In answer to the OP's Q, perhaps you might say, "Regardless of your race, which I of course respect, stop calling everything Asian "oriental" because I DON'T LIKE IT!" or something like that.

Michael (Just don't call me late for dinner!)

Wow, thanks. I thought it was only to be used to contain a bunch of languages. Of course, the fact that you were schooled in a public setting means that I too will be using that word to reference nothing but rugs from now on.

May I ask what point exactly it got across?

Michael

So you would say Is that an Oriental on your head?

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:

If somebody is using Oriental in a derogatory manner it doesn't do any good to teach them another word. Maybe they're a fan of Charlie Chan movies who was the Sherlock Holmes of Chinatown.

Jim

tea-obsessi> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything

Sometimes I think that us, foreigners, just enjoy torturing poor American autochthones with their own political correctness! If the word "oriental" would be so bad why so many companies all over Asia - hotels, ship lines, banks, etc. include the word into their name? I doubt that an American bank on its own soil would call itself "Gringo Bank" or an Israeli one - a Zhid Bank. The latter BTW is also a very interesting word - in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Western Ukraine a Jew will call himself a Zhid and never a "Evrei" (derivative from "Hebre"), while in Russia "Zhid" is an insult and "Evrei" - is a proper word for saying "Jew, Jewish". In the US the word Hebrew and especially its derivative "Heeb" if applied not to the language but to a Jewish person is frowned upon, while in most of the other countries it is considered to be neutral. And finally the word "Kike" was never an insult that Gentiles would use toward a Jew, but rather an American Jew of German descent who came to this shores earlier will use to insult his Polish "Johnnski-come-lateski" cousin for his Slavic "-ki" surname ending..

I was told a while ago by my Chinese friends in Vancouver that some second-rate politician in Washington (state, not DC) convinced local Asian community that Americans use that word (oriental) as a slur and built his political career on deleting it from the Washingtonian political language to a belly-laughter of all the rich Hongkongians across the border. If they were not pulling my leg, it was (and may be still is) illegal to use this word in any governmental a paper in the State of Washington! In the rest of 49 states including CA and NY its actually used all over on the state and federal level.

Mike, what is wrong with occidental? I guess you would not be so picky if someone would tell you that you are one of the heirs of Occidental Petroleum inheritance? :))))))))))

How is being called "oikumenal" sounds to you?

Sasha.

"Michael Plant" wrote in message news:C1C25472.458C8% snipped-for-privacy@pipeline.com...

Dear Michael-I try to use the word with care in it's proper setting. I think we all can tell if it is being used as a slur or not. Our best judgement should prevail...That goes for all racist terms and pc correctness...(my pc in my nickname is not on pc of politics, but rather obsessive complusive pu erh) which I am try to treat every day...I am using Pu-erh tea as the treatment..ocp

You don't. It is perfectly correct to use the word "Oriental" when describing a thing, "Asian" is preferred for describing people. That is why airlines, vases, teapots, rugs, etc. are Oriental. It means "of/from the orient" so it really can be used to describe people as well, and is not derrogatory just not the most accepted term anymore. Very few people actually care beyond young politically correct caring individuals.

Political correctness is all about politics, always need a way to divide masses of people into manageable chunks so you can appeal to one or the other. God forbid if everyone were truly just allowed to be considered equal like they would prefer and not get any special "status" or pandering from politicians to help keep them divided just to further their particular agenda. black/white, oriental/asian, etc./etc. it all would be moot and long since forgotten if it wasn't constantly pushed in peoples faces to keep the divisions alive.

- Dominic

Sasha, while I immensely enjoyed your informative post, and while I personally dispize the whole concept of political correctness as being the point at which the fascist right and left comingle, dare I say that you are joking when you ask me what I might have against the word "occidental' when when used to refer to my humble self?

The African American community -- is that OK to say? -- went through quite a series of designations, watching each fall out of favor by turns. This linguistic history need not be explicated here.

Michael

snipped-for-privacy@i80g2000cwc.googlegroups.com1/4/07

I'm proud of you. You have added to the many uses of our tea. Don't forget to cite the post you refer to, which you didn't above. Also, and this is my important point, at least to me, we *cannot* all tell anything. Culture and its baggage get in the way. Nothing is as obvious to the listener as the speaker thinks it is.

Talk about pontificating, would somebody revoke my usenet license before I post again!

Thanks.

Michael

If they are Chinese, call them Chinese. If they are Japanese, call them Japanese. You can never go wrong this way.

Orient means east. To be oriented means to know where the east is. Someone from the east is an oriental. So what's the issue?

Bubba

snip

God forbid if everyone were truly just allowed to be

snip

Ah but that's the problem Dominic. People don't prefer to be equal. They prefer to have someone or something to point to to say "I'm better than that [race, nationality, religion, color, person who prefers coffee to tea-gasp!]. In other words, while I think politicians use a lot of underhanded things including divisive measures to attain or keep power, I believe that even were we all leaderless, there would rise up a group that would discriminate against another group. If everyone got along...well, everyone would get along. How's that for profound, I think I need a cuppa something......

Melinda

I agree with this, I do a lot of cooking of various cuisines from southeast Asia and east Asia, and I (think I) know the difference between (some) sweet and sour Vietnamese and sweet and sour Thai. It is obvious when I go into, say, a store that's Korean and ask for something that apparently isn't a Korean ingredient (I got a talking to once when I did this, yes it was embarrassing and I thought it was a little heavy-handed but it got the point across). But since I do wish to study these cuisines in detail and "authentically" than I know I have to find x ingredient to be correct in my making of a dish. There's a big difference between Japanese picked radish and Chinese pickled radish, you know? . There are a lot of supposedly pan-asian stores out there but when I go in I can generally tell what direction a store leans to more, and usually it's more focused on whoever the main community in the area of the store is. Unless it's directed at non-asian americans, who may just be looking for ingredients that are not extremely specialized (to them) like sushi rice or something.

It takes a lot of learning though...how does one say "do you have gai lan" in four different languages...or more importantly, how does one say Thank You.

Melinda

My understanding is that the problem with the word "oriental" is that it reeks of a period of colonial imperialism... Academics avoid the word to show they do not look back fondly on that enterprise.

The problem, it seems, is that even in a group like rec.food.drink.tea, nobody is aware of this nuance ;)

Oh, I agree, that's human nature to make order out of chaos, status and to conquer... but that type of division is much different, like Ireland. It doesn't fall into nice cookie cutter molds of black/white or gay/straight it is based on much more deeper and complex systems and hierarchies.

But with a government in place, there is order, and there is actually no reason to divide along imaginary boundaries of distinction except to further an agenda. There have been much worse atrocities than slavery, say Nazi Germany/Jews. But because there is no government supporting or benefitting from a continued rift Jews and Germans live happily in coexistence. But slavery gets so overly used and abused by politicians and keeps the fires raging still to this day, if it weren't for that the issue would be long over or at least so minimized it would not be the hot button all these years later. Black "leaders" are just as much to blame, people like Jessie Jackson and the rest who have no actual authority but stir the pot and keep it going to keep lining their own pockets and claim they are "helping."

This plus political correctness has made this nation soft and turn on itself weakening a once strong nation. We have Repub/Dem battles, black/white, gay/straight, etc. etc. to the point that we are crumbling upon ourselves with no one to blame but ourselves. The only "winners" are the media and politicians and they perpetuate these issues to keep their coffers full at any expense. It will catch up with us in America, and the seeds are sown for this next generation to have the fun experience of "reaping" the rewards or lack thereof.

Sorry to go off on a tangent (I always do, no need to disappoint :) It is a sore spot with me, and I have many "Asian" friends Chinese, Japanese, and Korean and never would any of them young or old care if you said Oriental or Asian. Because they are down-to-earth people not caught up in PC bullshit.

- Dominic