Tea glass with embedded strainer ....

Ourania ZabuhurBYaf.1838$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net11/5/05

We're talking about rereads using different translations, though. Nonetheless, who could disagree about the Brothers K?

Wow. Impressive. Good for you. Fortuitous accident, indeed.

Michael

Thanks, I'll have to try it then, myself.

Why? What did I miss?

$10.00

Michael -

I am a wrong guy to ask about Dostoevsky translations. Reading it in Russian is the only thing on this planet that makes me suicidal. Every *&^king time. When my wife and daughter used to go visit some friends that I do not like very much for a week or longer they would hide all our Dostoevsky books in my library (I am dead serious!). After just being alone for two-three days I usually open "Brothers Karamazov" and a day later find myself all day in bed thinking dark thoughts. Dostoevsky is a very Russian writer. I say that as a non-Russian (or rather non-Slavic Russian). English language, I am sure, cannot bare that much guilt and sadness and desperation. I once (many years ago) was reading-translating Dostoevsky in bed to a young English girl I was in love with, who asked me in a trembling voice after a while how can I not cry when I read this? I said that a current hydraulic situation does not allow a male organism to shed even a tiny drop of a liquid. She called me a cynical monster and an evil beast. Much later she told me that precisely at that moment she realized that she will love me forever and that she will never marry me. Fyodor Michailovitch does strange things to people.

Majority of translations work from Russian into English is just a re-write of a story into mediocre English. Exceptions are rare but spectacular. The above mentioned Pevear - Volkonsky translations are my favorite. While my daughter was 14 she asked me to introduce her to serious Russian literature and I decided to do it seriously. There is an excellent Russian book "Master and Margarita" by M. Bulgakov that is rare in the sense that it gives equally as much pleasure and food for thought for both simple and sophisticated minds. I happen to know many passages by heart and I cited them to her (beautiful prose easy to remember almost as poetry) and made her remember them by heart. Then we went to the B&N and I asked her to choose among 4 or 5 translations the one she would feel fit the passages she knows best. Her choice (and mine, independently) was Pevear - Volkonsky.

There is another guy (Paul... I forgot his last name although I met him several times) from Oxford or Cambridge or both, he must be about 80 now and he translated many works by Tolstoy in the most excellent, precise and humorous way.

One of the most interesting and extremely and profoundly prophetic work of FMD is rarely discussed in the West "The Devils". You may like it.

Sasha.

Alex Chaihorsky3_Ycf.12296$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com11/11/05

Yes, I know what you mean. That's why he remains my favorite author next to Joyce.

Have you read Hardy?

I've chosen them for the latest re-reads.

If you do say so yourself?

Cool.

Ah, such a light hearted and simple minded little read. So gay and tripping. Jeez. But, yes, it's next on my list in fact. (I'm partial to The Idiot.The prince is so like myself. (Yuk.)

Seriously Sasha, your posts are always a delight.

Michael

Well, Joyce for me is a lithmus test. If an English speaking person does not like Joyce, he should be arrested and lie-detectored as a possible Russian spy. If a non-English speaking person likes Joyce - he is a liar and a pretentious literary snob.

If you mean Thomas Hardy, yes and no. I tried "Tess of D'Something" and the language killed me. However he is the author of one of my favourite aphorizms (which actually get a second meaning in light of current Scooter Libby-Miller scandal : "A lover without indiscretion is no lover at all".

I do not think I understood that remark of yours. Remember I am just a poor imm. No speak English good. :)

This is one of these little interesting translation thingies. This "prince" is a bad translation. The Russian word is " knyaz' " and although historically it is translated into "prince", something in me always cringes when I read it... Despite the fact that its completely irrelevant for the story... Knyaz Myshkin is a tragic figure, "Prince" Myshkin is a character from vaudeville...

Catching every possibility to bask in the setting rays of my First Amendment rights.

Sasha.

I don't like Joyce. Sue me. :)

On the other hand, I love Thomas Hardy's novels and stories. Haven't had a chance to read the poetry.

When I was about twelve, I tried very hard to read Ulysses because I had been told it was dirty. I was unable to make head or tail of it, and went away thinking I was missing something.

Years later, in grad school, I tried reading it again. And I _still_ couldn't make head or tail of it.

--scott

Michael's astute comments interleft (interleaved?) below in response to Sasha's extraordinary wit and literary wisdom.

I hate to admit it, but I have come to the same conclusion; Japanese and Swiss German speakers should not be allowed to read Joyce. Who's kidding whom, right?

Apparently nobody told this to the Brothers K. It coulda saved 'em a heap o'trouble.

Just a friendly way of suggesting you are bragging about your daughter, which of course, from what you say, you should.

You are commenting on the difference between the original vis-a-vis the English translation in general? Sad. There is a caracaturish thing happening, but I hope the feeling of the translation isn't that far amiss.

Setting rays, yes. I intend to spend my own twilight years away, so I can watch democracy's dissolution from afar.

I had decided to add a relevating tea comment here, but thought better of it.

Michael

snipped-for-privacy@news1.east.earthlink.net11/12/05

These are both problems you will have to deal with yourself, Diane. Can't help you, despite your pleas. Sorry. Michael

snipped-for-privacy@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com11/12/05

Shhhhh! At least we're not fighting. Michael PS: Forgot. I'll look it up tonight, unless somebody comes up with the name.

Scott Dorseydl5t0t$pt1$ snipped-for-privacy@panix2.panix.com11/12/05 18: snipped-for-privacy@panix.com

Seriously Scott, it's a day in the life, and not that hidden. They prowl around Dublin, meet, pee together, and split. The dirty parts are good literature, and that's always a downer for prurience. Sorry.

Michael

I have no idea what you're talking about. (Which is probably a good thing.)