tea ware Question

Hello,

I have a tea ware question. I was looking at these 'beautiful Tenmoku's on the teaspring.com website (found here:

formatting link
 ) and they are described as:

"These tea bowls were created in China during the Tang Dynasty and gained popularity in the Song Dynasty (960-1279). In China, they are known as "Jian Zhan" but they are more widely known as Tenmoku (Japanese) nowadays. Tenmoku has been part of the Japanese tea ceremony since the 13th century. They are also suitable for brewing Chinese Green, White, Yellow and Black teas."

What it doesn't say, however, is if one uses these to drink tea out of. Does anyone have any of these? Do you use them as a cup -- is it awkward to drink from? Or does one just use them as a bowl in which to steep tea in?

Reply to
kid_kei
Loading thread data ...

You sound like the kind of person who - in your non-tea-ceremony moments - would be happier brewing tea in a gaiwan and decanting it into your favorite cup to drink.

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

I do have favorite cups.... This is why I am wondering if these could be my new "favorite cups."

Reply to
kid_kei

If these are the same cups as the ones Japanese use in tea ceremony, then I have to say in general they are very awkwardly large for regular drinking. They're about the size of rice bowls, sometimes larger.

Oddly enough, teaspring is not accessible from China, so I can't tell you anything about them without seeing pictures of the specific ones in question.

MarshalN

formatting link

Reply to
MarshalN

The ones Teaspring carries do come in different sizes...from 50ml to

300ml. I would think they'd make nice cups to drink from. Awkard? I don't see why they should be...except maybe 300ml is a bit too big. At least for me it's too big because I brew with small(er) Yixings and gaiwans.

One point to note, though -- and this is also very personal -- those cups are dark or bold-colored inside and out. I personally like to enjoy the true colors of my teas, so I prefer white or very lightly tinted on the inside. But that's just me...

My 2 cents.

Phyll

MarshalN wrote:

Reply to
Phyll

Lewis snipped-for-privacy@panix1.panix.com11/5/06 16: snipped-for-privacy@panix.com

The bowls on the TeaSpring page you linked above appear in the style of Song, mostly Southern (later) Song.Dynasty. At that time, you were far more apt to encounter powdered tea than leaf, so the bowls made sense. My answer to your question is to work it out for yourself, because you are not hampered by pedantic rules. First, you could brew a tea using less leaf, and wait until the leaves settled before drinking. You could also mix matcha into your bowl. The fun will be experimenting to see which leaf works best. Some leaf tends to float, some to settle. You'll find your way. Please report your findings.

BTW, those bowls do look very inviting. I was tempted by purchase an authentic Northern Song bowl recently, but when would I use it? Sometimes "fake" has its place. I'm a great fan of fake. Just don't pawn it off as "real."

"Temoku" BTW is the term for the thick deep black glaze common on wares from Japan these days. It's relatively easy to handle, and so leads to much ugliness in the name of art. A thinner application leads to the rich brown color you often see edging these bowls at their rims, etc. The oil spot and hare's fur (Song) effects are not so easily achieved.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

kid snipped-for-privacy@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com11/5/06

18: snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com

Why not? M

Reply to
Michael Plant

snipped-for-privacy@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com11/6/06

00: snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com

They are the typical hare's fur and oil spot bowls of Southern Song. Size is probably in line with those, somewhat smaller than Japanese tea bowls.

Is there anybody here who has seen and handled the Tea Bowl known as Mt. Fuji?

Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

Of the nine tea bowls shown, 6 hold 300 ml, 2 hold 100 ml, and one holds 50 ml. The 300 ml bowls are the right size for Japanese tea ceremony. Temmoku tea bowls are conically shaped, and meant for serving in a wooden or lacquered stand. This was a way of showing honor to a special guest. Nowadays, in Japan, temmoku bowls with the stands are usually used for preparing tea to be offered to Buddhas at temples or Shinto deities at shrines.

I should note that these 6 tea bowls on this page are all the right size and shape for a "temmoku." They all also have glazes that are typical of "temmoku" tea bowls. The word "temmoku," in Japan, however, is *also* used to talk about these kinds of glazes, even if the glaze is used on some other utensil. I expect most potters in Japan would recognize all of these glazes as being "temmoku," but for the normal Japanese person, the word usually conjures up brown and black images, much like the (smallest) bowl in the upper right corner of the Teaspring page, or the 100 ml "Temmoku II" in the middle of the top row.

In the Japanese tea ceremony, powdered green tea (matcha) is put into a bowl, a small amount of hot water is added, and they are whipped together with a bamboo whisk. The tea will be served in the bowl. The bowl will only have about three tablespoons of tea in it, but the relatively large size of the bowl allows the host to whisk the tea without slopping.

When drinking Japanese tea ceremony tea, you hold the bowl with two hands. You don't drink this kind of tea while trying to type a letter or answer the door. Even when drinking matcha in extremely casual settings, you stop whatever else you are doing, and focus-- for the

15-20 seconds it takes-- on drinking the tea.

Personally, I'd rather go to a tea-utensil shop in Japan and *look* at the individual tea bowls rather than buy them online. On the other hand, coming from a Japanese context, these bowls all look "right," and the prices seem perfectly reasonable. On the third hand, if you want just one bowl for preparing matcha, I wouldn't start with these: their conical shape isn't the easiest place to learn to whisk tea. I'd look for bowls with broader bases that wouldn't tip over as easily.

james-henry holland japanese language and culture hobart and william smith colleges geneva, new york 14456

Reply to
Thitherflit

The temmoku tea bowls used in Japanese tea ceremony are generally smaller than other bowls used in tea ceremony: The conical shape reduces the capacity of the bowl.

There is a very famous tea bowl called "Fujisan" (Mt. Fuji) by Hon'ami Koetsu. It is a "national treasure," and pictures show up in a fair number of books. All that I can find is that it is in a "private collection." This is a raku tea bowl, a different style from temmoku bowls.

Reply to
Thitherflit

Whoops-- one more comment to minimize confusion.

The Japanese word for this kind of tea bowl/this glaze can be romanized as either teNmoku or as teMmoku. There is no English-like /n/ in the correct pronunciation. Rather there is an /m/ that you start and hold for an extra beat. Anyway, both romanizations occur frequently, and both refer to the same *pronunciation*.

Reply to
Thitherflit

Thanks for much for your 2 cents.

Reply to
kid_kei

To save me some time, what are the Japanese characters for: fujisan, temmoku, raku

TIA, Jim

Thitherflit wrote:

Reply to
Space Cowboy

Thanks for much. I think I have decided that if I do purchase a bowl it will be simply to decorate the house and not to drink tea from. You make a good point about being able to see the color of the tea, and I tend to feel the same way. Also, 100 ml seems too small and 300 ml seems just a bit too big.

Thanks again for your interesting insight,

Chris.

Reply to
kid_kei

ClNwYWNlIENvd2JveSB3cm90ZToKPiBUbyBzYXZlIG1lIHNvbWUgdGltZSwgd2hhdCBhcmUgdGhl IEphcGFuZXNlIGNoYXJhY3RlcnMgZm9yOgo+IGZ1amlzYW4sIHRlbW1va3UsIHJha3UKPgo+IFRJ QSwKPiBKaW0KCuWvjOWjq+WxseOAgeWkqeebruOAgealvSwgaW4gdGhhdCBvcmRlci4KCk1hcnNo YWxOCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cueGFuZ2EuY29tL01hcnNoYWxOCg=

Reply to
MarshalN

Thank you SO much for taking the time to form such a erudite and detailed response. I had recently been reading up on Matcha, but have yet to have been able to try it. I think that for the strict purpose of day-to-day drinking a variety of Chinese Teas I will delay the purchase of these bowls, and when I am able to get my hands on same Matcha to try invest in something with a broader base as you suggest.

Thanks again,

Chris.

Thitherflit wrote:

Reply to
kid_kei

snipped-for-privacy@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com11/6/06

09: snipped-for-privacy@hws.edu

Yes, that's the one. The Koetsu. I take it you have never touched it. Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

This was a very informative answer, and I agree wholeheartedly -- especially about tenmoku being somewhat more difficult to handle than a raku ware, which tends to have vertical walls. I like the wood-feeling black raku ware for this sort of thing.

Would a blue (or any other non black/brown colour) glazed bowl shaped like a normal tenmoku be considered a tenmoku bowl, or is there some other name for those colours? I've seen some in a baby blue colour (with patches of navy) and some other less conventional colours.

MarshalN

formatting link

Reply to
MarshalN

I bought a Macha Bowl (Matcha Chawan) at

formatting link

No bragging rights, but functional and attractive. Just the right size for whisking with a Chasen (don't remember where I bought that) and fits my hand nicely.

I also bought a Bue Dimension teapot for my Genmaicha, handmade from Yixing clay, at

formatting link

This is quite nice, makes one cup of tea at a time and is easy to clean. I only clean it with hot water and a soft bristle brush.

I buy my teas, sashimi grade fish, sake, etc. at Mitsuwa market in Little Tokyo, Los Angeles.

formatting link

HTH

Reply to
n_cramerSPAM

DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.