What You've Been Waiting For

If I was knowingly and deliberately selling fake teas it would have made more sense to send some great stuff as sample and then the fakes when real orders were placed, rather than making a whopping 3 dollars off of the "garbage" I sent Mr. Petro and Gerald. But beyond an apology I can offer nothing more to him or anyone else here. It's not as if we are selling a fake magazine with blank pages. Read a few issues, criticize the articles, the editing, the advertisings etc.- tear them to shreds if you like, but at least then your criticism will be reasonable and founded on more than absurd personal opinions about one of many of our employees.

I have not dealt with anyone besides Mr. Petro and Gerald (and 1-2 emails from a guy in Singapore) despite whatever their Phd. research shows. However, you can blame me for all the wrongs that have ever occurred in the tea industry, global warming or worship me as Satan if it makes you feel better. Who or what I am is not at all the point. The point is that this immature slur attempt to drive my name through the mud has nothing to do with the magazine and no matter what you think of me, you should evaluate the product on its own merits. I am not the magazine and it isn't me.

I am all for conscientious shopping but if your standard is that you won't purchase anything from any company that has an employee that has ever done anything morally questionable then you'd better give all your property to charity and move to a cave somewhere- being very careful which charity you choose. Surely, then you don't drive a car, motorcycle or ride on a bus or plane as that would support the oil industry. And maybe one of the clerks at your supermarket has a gambling problem, so you'd better stop going there. The janitor at the company that manufactured your computer is an excon too, on parole for assaulting an innocent police officer, and as Mr. Petro says "no legitimate company would associate with one of such a bad reputation." You can't get worse than a convicted felon for reputation, so no more computer. While you're at it, you'd better stop paying taxes lest you support some political corruption. Furthermore, I, Aaron Fisher, am not the Executive Editor for the magazine, I am just an editor. And I'm not here to judge anyone. Maybe Mike Petro is a much better person than me. I am happy to let him be that in reputation and in life, but even saints don't cast stones.

Yawn.....

I never accused you of selling fake tea per se, all I said was that your tea was crap. I, Geraldo, and Michael Plant all drew the same conclusion and all three of us literally threw the remainder of the tea away rather than drink it. Maybe wet storage puerh is acceptable in your circles, it is not in ours, especially if the fact is not disclosed in advance. In any event when I was honest with you about it, and still quite diplomatic, all you did was ridicule me and my friends saying we didn't know what good puerh was nor how to brew it.

Ahh but "who or what you are" is EXACTLY the point. You came into our midst, once again, advertising your latest venture. You clearly, by virtue of your signature and email address, portrayed that you hold a role of major significance in the publication. You also hid your true identity once again, which is a real big red flag!

Hint: Don't advertise here if you don't want to be scrutinized!

Editorial integrity is important to me in the publications I choose. Much like I would not buy the National Enquirer or Globe periodical, I would not buy a magazine managed by Editors whose integrity is so deeply in question. If I am paying for a magazine I want to be able to believe it's contents, and with you I never know what to believe. So "what and who you are" is indeed the point!

My apologies, but as reported by Phyll this was the way you signed your name. It is also the title you used when talking to people in Kunming.

I guess the title is no longer convenient..........

-- Mike Petro

DogMa1JOVg.214829$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net10/7/06

Aha! All I meant to say was that paying close attention to the tea and its preparation makes the experience that much more interesting. Some ritual helps that awareness along. Discovering a new demension in a tea, a demension that you find you can't easily express (if at all) is what is technically known in the jargon as a "happy mystery." Yet the last thing in the world I'd want to do is mystify you. That's the last from me.That's it. There is no more.

Dogma's point that the "I know something you don't know, and I'm not gonna tell you" syndrome is crap is very well taken indeed. Catching the mystery, as somebody in my past had said, is "as easy as falling off a log."

Yadayadayada.

Michael

Not exactly, if you ask your friend Gerald he will tell you that he ordered 3 sample bags that he told me were for himself and 2 of his friends, which including you equals 4.

Go ahead and shout till your hoarse about how dispicable I am. I know in my heart what I'm guilty of and what is just rumor. I will repent my own sins in my own way and it won't have anything to do with whatever judgement you or anyone else here casts upon me. It is between me and my own death.

I understand. However I did send you a rather expensive apology and there is no way that could have been misconstrued as some kind of gimmik, since it was way after I closed shop and I blatantly said it was purely by way of apology for any wrong I did and for writing you a negative email when you accused me of something I wasn't directly involved in. I couldn't have thoughtthat you would want to buy anything from me either. Again, here I am apologizing. That calligraphy, note, cups and tea took time, money and love to prepare and send you. I'm not here seeking credit for it or a thanks, that would negate the apology. I'm merely trying to point out that I offered my apologies to you and Gerald in a way that was more than just words and long before the current discussion.

I didn't here claim to be high and mighty. In fact, I admitted that I had wronged you. I said quite clearly above that I'm just a normal guy with a dirty backyard, a sinner. And if you were truly a saint, rather than a panty hose factory worker, you wouldn't be judging me personally. Read the magazine and criticize it. I still believe you are a good person and I think this grapevine talk isn't the best side of your character anymore than the lying was the best side of mine. It all sounds like the guys on the forums that discuss the online games my son plays, where they bash each other for a half an hour because one of them didn't deserve the +2 ring of ice knowledge.

I am not the Executive Editor, he is a Chinese man as you will see when you open the cover of the magazine. I am just an editor. Though I was asked to submit the above add to some blogs, forums, etc. on behalf of the magazine, and I had some help with that so even the above spams, etc. weren't all placed by me as if it matters. They were just that, generic spam.

As I said, Mike, this is all really beneath both of us. I really felt like ignoring it all, and not out of righteous indignation just because I don't want to participate in such gossip. But here I am, and I am here because some of the rumors and/or gossip is based in fact and therefore it would be irresponsible of me not to participate in the thread and admit my guilt for what it's worth. But too much of this is personal. It should have been handled personally.

"If that brick was a 1965 then my name is Hillary Clinton! {snip} Do you honestly believe that I don't know enough to know a 40+ cake when I taste it?"

These are your quotes. See I can play this silly game too, and see you exaggerate and get involved emotionaly and contradict yourself just as every other human being on the planet does!

Heheh, OK, now you want to play semantics. Look up the use of "per se".

I never said your tea was "fake", I simply implied that it wasn't the age advertised, If you interpret that as meaning "fake" then accept my apologies and replace "fake" with "crap". Your alleged 1965 didn't taste like any 40 year old brick I, or any of my tea enthusiast friends, have ever tasted. Of course at $300 per brick I didn't really expect a 40 year old brick either; however I had hoped you would prove me wrong on that assumption! Nonetheless, the tea was crap by whatever semantics you wish to use. What really really got me was how much you so eloquently raved about the superior quality of the tea, and how utterly bad it was. Will you use this same ill-placed eloquence in your magazine?

To me "fake" is when you put a false neifei and/or wrapper on a cake, or when you alter a cake through devious storage techniques to changes its appearance and smell so that you can intentionally sell a 5 year cake as a 40 year old, in other words a forgery. I couldn't say that any of your teas were "fake" as you never disclosed the pedigree of any of them. You made up some pretty names like "Rainbow" and "Joy" but neglected to tell me the factory, harvest region, or any other important specification. You only even gave me the vintage on 2 of them. To be "fake" they would have had to "imitate" something. If you don't portray them as being anything specific then how can they be fake?

Mike

Aaron Fisher wrote: [snip]

Giving credit where credit is due, you did send me a nice little care package, and some of the tea samples were actually pretty damn good. AromaSerene might have actually been successful if you would have sent Gerald and me teas of that quality the first time around. Your psuedo "apology note" was a bit confusing though since it included, amongst other things, that you never wanted to talk to me again and that you were going to set your email client up to filter out any email sent by me.

OK, all innuendo aside, you never did answer my question, WHY do you so frequently cloak your identity?

A "Saint" I am not nor have I ever claimed to be, but integrity involving my passion for tea, and those with whom I do tea business with, is of paramount importance to me.

If you are trying to insult my profession, I am an IT Manager and Automation Engineer at a Nylon Extrusion factory. I am responsible for millions of dollars worth of Robotics, Computer Systems, and Factory Automation equipment. I am not ashamed of this. Yes, some of our product does wind up in Victoria Secret intimate apparel etc, I just wish I was also responsible for interviewing/selecting the models.

How can I "handle it personally" if you are filtering all my emails?

Note; not a single person has come to your defense so far, if anything it has been the opposite. You would have been better off letting someone else of better reputation, or even no reputation, promote the magazine. The whole idea of an English Puerh magazine is absolutely fantastic. I contributed questions to it the very first time the request was made on another forum, of course I didn't know of you involvement at that time either. You have lost your credibility in my book; you will have to "earn" that back again. Showing up here and not even having the nerve to admit your identity is not the way to earn my, nor anybody else's, trust back. It reeks of old habits......

Mike

Guys, guys, guys! Saints are *not* by definition flawless beings; they are rather creatures of poor, and often nasty, mental habit, who overcame themselves in their quest for God. Let us not abuse the word so lightly. It's not perfection but the conquest of imperfection that makes us saints. (Some might say; that is, IMHO.) BTW, I have personally tasted the teas Aaron claims are so fine and Mike says are "crap". Based on this, I can only say that Aaron fits the first qualification for sainthood, if not the second, if you follow my meaning. Michael

1. Did Aaron remove/retract his apology above? It's gone. Oh well, I guess he didn't mean that. The funny thing is that what he wrote is still readable in subsequent responses under "show quoted text". This issue is becoming more of a turn off for me, despite the involvement of an esteemed tea friend. What an amateur!

2. Mike, granted the tea you received was crap, aren't there good wet storage and bad wet storage pu'er? Heard a bit about it, though I'm not sure...haven't experienced any or many wet storage (not that I know of, anyway).

1. The apology on LJ Puerh Community was signed as Executive Editor and the email I received was also signed by Executive Editor (no name on both). Well, unless it was Aaron's boss who posted on LJ Puerh and emailed me, which I doubt, then Aaron is telling the truth. Otherwise, he promoted himself to an Executive level nicely. >

2. What is "Saints Forbid" in the new title? (Rhetorical question, mostly :)

Phyll

Mike Petro wrote:

This thread is like very much like a personal vendetta by Mike Petro against Aaron Fisher. Perhaps the points have been clearly made by all parties. My 2 cents is to urge everyone to sit back, relax, wait and BORROW the 1st English publication of the magazine, read it in the toilet, and judge the magazine's content. See if it's good or if it's like a wet storage magazine.

Aaron's reputation maybe suspect. But to pre-judge a magazine -- not even by its cover -- is just very premature. All I'm saying is give the magazine a chance.

My 2 cents and imho.

Phyll

Phyll wrote:

Hi Phyll,

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Yes, I do have strong opinions about this man. If you had the dealings with him that I did I suspect you would have strong feelings as well.

No, I am not judging the magazine. I am judging the (executive?)Editor who in turn has considerable influence over the magazine.

I said my piece early on, Aaron Fisher is not to be trusted. Sharing our bad experiences with Vendors is in keeping with what this group does. I would have left it at that, everything else has been fueled by rebuttals on one side or another, both in this forum and on Tea-Disc.

Mike

BTW, while wet storage puerh is fairly popular in Hong Kong, most other puerh aficionados shun it though. It has an overwhelming note of mold or mildew to it that most find undesirable. Think sour wet laundry and you get the idea!

rather expensive apology and

To the guy who may be Aaron, If I say some stuff about you and you me will you send me a nice cup with calligraphy and a really good Ti Kuan Yin? I was innocent before but now I am not (because I have read much about you) So does this qualify me for the care package? Jenn

Of course they're not. They've never even made it to the Super Bowl, much less gone undefeated.

snipped-for-privacy@gwinn.us/9/06 18: snipped-for-privacy@gwinn.us

Cute, Derek! Here I am trying to contribute a little serious discussion about sainthood, and you come in with Super Bowl. Jeez! (Don't get mad, I mean that in a good way.) Personally, I place more stock in Supper Bowl.

Phyll, seriously, the saints thing was just my little contribution to the understanding that saints are not perfect people, but people who overcame very human frailty and in the process rise to greatness. It's a Church thing. Sorry if I was off the mark.

Mike merely put cold hard facts on the table. He was not involved in a vendeta. I suspect he thought long and hard, and weighed his words carefully. It would have been a grave disservice to us, had he kept this all to himself.

Michael

Oops. Sorry 'bout that. I've been out-of-the-loop for a few days since a computer crash last Friday. Must have missed the "serious discussion" thread.

I'll pay more attention in the future.... or not. (heh.)

That's actually an unfair characterization of wet storage puerh. Properly done wet storage, if nothing else, tastes better than cooked puerh, and there are PLENTY of people who like cooked puerh. I've had wet storage that, while not as impressive as nicely done, dry stroage puerh of good raw materials, are nothing to scoff at.

The poorly done or mismanged wet storage are the ones that turn out nasty. The good ones you don't even know you're drinking wet storage unless you know exactly what to look for. Chances are you'll just think something is well aged. A multitude of cakes that were made prior to the late 80s have probably been through wet storage at some point in Hong Kong, and if you've, say, bought a sample of a cake from the 70s, you're probably drinking some wet storage pu.

"Wet Storage" is a funny phrase. On the one hand we have the get-it-going-fast wet blanket treatment of the pre-cake leaf, and on the other we have storage environments that alternate more and less humidity in some configuration or other. Sun Sing, a reputable Hong Kong tea company, advocates at least some high humidity storage along the cake's path to greatness. They have been almost apologetic about this, but their teas are among the best I've tasted. They are not free.

BTW MarshalN, please don't forget to cite your quotes. I don't know who the OP above is.

Michael

Since the quoted text appeared right above my post (in Mike Petro's reply to Phyll) I thought it was obvious enough...

Most wet storage just invovles sticking the tea in storage that is high in humidity. It does not mean sprikling the tea liberally with water. In fact, that will almost guarantee mould, and that's bad because most people don't like mouldy taste, even the ones who prefer the "Hong Kong storage" taste.

MarshalN,

Remember the [supposedly 7-yr old raw] brick that I sent you a while ago. That might have been wet storage. You noticed tiny little white dots, which I didn't until you mentioned it. That brick was from Guangzhou. I still have one brick left and I keep it separate from my other pu'er stash.

Phyll

MarshalN wrote: