the major part of the problem is probably that alcohol simply interferes with one's ability to think and act civilized. we are all animals, primed in our core to survive -- and that drive to survive sometimes requires violent behavior.
alcohol interferes with the minds' ability to keep biology in check.
thus, it allows violent behavior to be expressed in situations where one's survival is *not* threatened.
fortunately it's the exception rather than the rule among alcohol users
-- as are all the sterotypes involving users of other intoxicants.
err, actually that's exactly what it indicates, a correlation between being drunk and more violence happening,
then why does only 20% of the alcohol related violence happen in or around pubs, what about the other 80% of alcohol related violence that happens away from pubs?
so it's the place, and not the drug they're consuming which is accepted as a known risk factor for commiting violent offense by virtually every one who has ever studied the issue.
more violence happens at night than during the day because more people are drunk at night.
then you must be really inobservant.
most people yes.
your 'experiences' aren't born out by *any* of the evidence
mostly yes, but there is a hell of alot of aggresion and violence, it is simply unavoidable late at night in the vast majority of town centers on friday and saturday nights. Ask any taxi driver.
yeah, but you don't know what you're talking about, as is made obvious by the fact we are even having this discussion.
it makes the violent more violent, that does not stop it making the non violent more likely to be violent.
OK, I walk by the pub. No-one is smoking, I enter and order a pint. Then someone comes in smoking. If I have a problem with that, you're saying I'm the one who should leave?
It doesn't indicate that alcohol causes the violence, any more than the game of football causes violence.
That document you posted says around 50% of alcohol related assaults (other than domestics) occurred in or around pubs/clubs. It doesn't claim alcohol was the cause of these incidents. It includes mugging etc, do you think alcohol causes people to mug?
So why is it certain pubs/clubs are virtually guaranteed to have a fight every weekend, whereas in others it is very rare? Is there some difference in the beer they serve?
The point is that is not proved by the simple fact that "violence is more likely in drunk people", any more than the lack of sunlight is proved responsible by the fact that violence is more likely at night.
If it is a place where smoking is permitted, most certainly.
Same as if I walk past a pub. It is quiet inside. I enter and order a pint. Then someone plays music on the jukebox. If I have a problem with that, would you say I am the one who should leave?
Cross-posting is not generally considered bad manners.
If the topic is of relevance to all the groups it is definitely polite.
I send to everyone who may be interested. With USENET it is impossible to know who is interested beforehand as groups may have hundreds, if not thousands of subscribers.
Don't be silly. One posts to the group if one has something to say which is relevant to that group.
No. The title a group often gives one a good idea of what is of interest to the group. The FAQ does not rule out the subjects I have posted about.
Drivel. If maybe 10 people in a group object I may take notice of what they say. But I will certainly ignore one person. When that person is rude they can be guaranteed to be ignored.
All the articles I have cross-posted to news:alt.food.wine are on topic; as far as I am concerned. Given that wine is frequently sold in pubs and other licensed premised my last post was very definitely on topic.
It the post annoys you then ignore it, no one if forcing you to read anything. Stop behaving like a child by assuming you are the only person in the world that matters.
here's a quote from the document "In each survey around one-fifth of violent incidents had taken place in or around pubs, bars and clubs."
1/5 % of all alcohol related violence which is what was my whole point.
it does however claim alcohol was involved in these incidents, and seeing as how alcohol is involved in 50% of all violent crimes, it would suggest that alcohol is a major risk factor for commiting violent crime.
no but it makes them more likely to be more violent, and may help them get over their inhibitions to commit the offense in the first place.
the ages of customers, older people are vastly less likely to commit violent offences than young people.
the fact that virtually every researcher who has studied alcohol and aggresion has found that alcohol is intimately related to an increase in aggresion, would suggest that alcohol has an effect on increasing violent tendencies.
the landlord is a private owner of it and under the laws being proposed in the UK won't be allowed to, even if he wants to.
if you have a problem with smoking and the landlord doesn't yes, it isn't your pub, you don't get to dictate what that landlord allows because he does own the place you don't, all you can do is choose not to go there afterall no one is forcing you to go into a smoking pub, if you have a problem go to a non smoking pub in the first place.
Nothing new... the extension of pub opening times in Scotland proved this when pub opening limits of 10 pm were changed... in Edinburgh in some pubs changed to 1am or 2am in some places ... although I sometimes enjoyed drinking in the Subway in the Cowgate until 6am and, then afternoon openings were permitted long before they were in England...
Are violent people more likely to be heavy drinkers, or are heavy drinkers more likely to be violent?
Do people go out with the intention of drinking, and end up in a fight, or do people go out with the intention of having a fight and have a few drinks beforehand?
I'm sure it's not 100% one or the other - but the point is surveys like the one you quote do nothing to answer the question of whether alcohol *causes* the behaviour.
But less co-ordinated, slower etc.
But the point is they probably wanted to commit to offence in the first place.
they
This split also occurs between pubs/clubs frequented by similar age groups.
in
fact
Rather than reducing the inhibitions in someone who is violent anyway? As many other depressants do?
the violence wouldn't happen in alot of cases without the alcohol hence alcohol being involved in 50% of all violence,
and less responsive to painful stimulus, making them more able to cause more trouble than if they were sober.
that only covers 5% of the violent incidents though.
but pubs frequented by younger people are generally more aggresive, and have more trouble with violence.
you mean like pot a depressant which makes otherwise aggresive people less aggresive? or how about smack, which makes people who are aggresive go on a nod like all other users of the drug, or how about benzodiazapenes, where aggresive people get really dopy and sleepy like all other users of the drugs. There is no other drug which has anything like the relationship with aggresive behaviour and violence that alcohol has.
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