Breathing and vapors

If a wine absolutely must breath, I will give it artificial resperation once I have the glass up to my mouth ( strike that....it should read, once I have the bottle up to my mouth )

Yes, indeedy! My main point was that the elaborate 'breathing ritual' that some people go through is baseless.

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Michael Scarpitti) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

Get 2 bottles of a good Rioja Reserva. Open bottle one, pour into decanter let it set for 2 hours, At the end of two hours open the second bottle. At this point you have sipped neither wine. Now taste the wines in any order you choose. You will notice that the character of the wine has changed due to the decantation aeration process. I make no claim as to "better" only to change.

FWIW I like it better decanted, but you may find it different.

Decanting is one of the most important decisions one must make when opening a bottle of wine, for it surely does change the wine, although those changes range from trivial and often all but undetectable in very young wines to profound and potentially destructive in very old wines.

Decanting allows some unpleasant aromas and 'bottle' stinks' to blow off. To those insensitive to TCA, these can seem like a corked wine - I have seen several good bottles discarded because the person that opened it smelled something unpleasant and assumed that it was corked, not knowing the difference. Of course if it is Burgundy, the stink may be all part of the fun....;-)

With some young wines the oxidation reactions that begin when you aerate and decant can soften the wine.

In wines such as Port and certain Nebbiolo based wines, these reactions need at least several hours to bring the wine to it's best drinking point.

In some older wines, you may find that the whole process takes not hours but minutes. I have had 1981 Bordeaux crash over a couple of hours and I have seen

I haven't been following this thread, but if I am correct in stating that someone thought that the chemical reactions promoted by aeration have no effect on the smell and taste of a wine, they are incorrect, perhaps through inexperience or inability to detect the differences.

And food will definitely affect how one perceives a wine as well. If the wine is the focus then no food, initially at least, is best. You can then decide whether the wine is best appreciated alone (as in the case of old Rieslings, dessert wines and ancient red Burgs) or with food, which can blunt the tannins and acids of a younger wine.

Of course aeration has an effect: bad. That's why I keep the cork in after opening. My argument was that you SHOULD NO 'breathe' wine, not that breathing it has no effect. It has no GOOD effect, except, perhaps, for a few seconds.

I never said it didn't change. I said it doesn't get 'better'. The 'better' taste comes from eating and drinking over a period of time. Thus, a SECOND bottle will taste better right after opening than the first bottle did.

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Michael Scarpitti) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

get the Rioja and see how it tastes and then write back. Food or no food the change is for the "better", more complex, goes from tasting like a Grenache based Rhone to a Cabernet Sauvignon IMHO but you try it.

"Michael Scarpitti" wrote an opinion

Michael - you have gone to great lengths to state a subjective opinion.

I will be the first to defend your right, not only to have an opinion, but to have the freedom to state/publish/broadcast that opinion.

But, consider this - What if that opinion was nonsense?

Not just a little off the mark, but absolute dribble.

Would you like to discuss matters in an open and courteous forum (which a.f.w. is 99% of the time) or are you going to steadfastly hold on to an erroneous argument - just for the sake of it?

Because, respectfully, that is the current situation.

Some extremely knowledgeable people from all walks of life, from many countries around the world, with experience in wine far, far more expansive than yours have tried to explain that the decanting and/or aeration of a wine is a very important decision which one must make.

Almost everyone is agreement - the wine will surely change.

However, you are the only one trying to defend an argument that all change is bad.

This is total crap - but you are unable or, probably more accurately unwilling to accept this.

So, enough is enough; you have stated your case; you are unwilling to even entertain the fact that your own experience is very limited and that you have neither the experience or ability to detect these changes, and in reality you know 2/5 of 5/8 of bugger-all about the wonderful world of wine.

Go back to making your racist comments re women tennis players or the finer points of photography if you cannot contribute in a positive and polite manner in this newsgroup.

Don't know what you have been drinking but many wines open up and improve over a period that ranges from a half hour to a day or more.

Yep.

M.

Bill, do not feed the trolls.

M.

It has been my experience that oxidation over any length of time is bad for wine. (It's also bad for developer.)

You may find that opening a bottle lets the wine cast off a little mustiness, but that's all. It should be recorked immediately.

It's really rather simple: Oxygen is bad.

What if the opinions of those who advocate breating are nonsense?

Likewise with 'breathers'.

It's not erroneous.

Have you considered the possibility that you're mistaken?

I have enjoyed many, many, many, wines from all around Italy, Sicily, and Sardinia.

Have you ever tasted Giacomo Bologna's Barberas? Fabulous!

Grignolino from Bruno Giacosa? Chionetti's Dolcetto di Dogliani? Valentini's Trebbiano di Abruzzo? Cosimo Taurino's Patrigliano?

etc. etc. etc.

I agree it will change. It will go bad.

Because oxidation ruins everything.

My experience is not 'limited'. See above.

I never drink F_____ wines. Sorry. I'm of Italian ancestry.

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Michael Scarpitti) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

Not a problem, Rioja is Spanish and after airing it tastes full bodied like a CA Cab instead of thin like a cheap French one. All the better for your gustatory satisfaction.

If you think 'breathing' the wine has a positive effect, get two or three bottles of the same wine and open one and note its character upon opening, then enjoy your dinner. Open the second bottle from the same batch and see if it hasn't magically 'improved' over the first notes of the first bottle.

The 'positive effect' that you may have attributed to breathing has nothing to do with breathing. It has to do with eating food and drinking the wine, which also includes smelling it.

I haven't been following the thread, but from recent repetitive responses I am coming to the conclusion that you are correct.

I wonder why anyone would bother - this group has many people that have opened more than their share of wine, tasted without any food and monitored over time, who know that what he is saying is drivel. Oh well.

I shan't respond any further.

I did enjoy a Spanish red called Muga a few months ago. Seemed good, but a little watery. I know absoltely nothing about wines that are not Italian.

I don't drink Cabs or California wines either. Spanish wines I will drink.

Actually I believe in politeness to the point that it hurts. A lot of years ago I read an article in a wine magazine that said that it was necessary to drink wines like Chat La Tour to educate your tastes so you would know what good wine was supposed to taste like. I thought at the time that the author was the biggest snob in the world. When I drank my first La Tour, I no longer disagreed with that position. This latest "troll" must be drinking Thunderbird to have to strange opinions that he does but maybe he is worth educating and saving. If he shows up in your restaurant one day, you hope like hell that he will have learned what good wine tastes like.

I got called a troll and a newbie in alt.history this week. I have been posting to that group for four years and the guy that said that has only been on the internet for one year. He had a different opinion that mine.

I will try not to feed him more than the required daily amount. Bill