does wine go bad

I often hear conversations that go something like this:

"This wine doesn't taste very good. I wonder what's wrong with it?"

"It's probably oxidized."

This reminds me of an old (to me, anyway) joke about a helicopter lost in the fog around Redmond, Washington, looking for Microsoft. Finally, the pilot landed next to an office building and asked the first person he saw: "Where am I?'

"In a helicopter" came back the immediate reply.

Whereupon the pilot declared: "I've found Microsoft. I asked a simple question and got an answer that, while completely correct, was also completely useless".

Vino

I didn't say they turned to vinegar, I said they get vinegary, meaning they start having a sour taste.

Oxidation is easy to define: Smell (and taste) of browning apple peels.

M.

Not to quibble, but this is not a "definition" of oxidation. It is a description of certain sensory perceptions that *may* be detected when one smells (or tastes) certain wines in which some specific oxidative reactions have taken place. My point was that "oxidation" is often used as a catchall term to describe any wine that has "gone bad". It may be that most (perhaps every) types of reaction that can cause a wine to "go bad" have some "oxidative" element to them. But simply to say that a wine has "oxidized" is not saying very much, except in a very general sense. Which, in some cases, may be perfectly adequate. But, as almost everyone here would agree, sometimes "oxidation" can improve a wine.

Vino

Michael - one indication of oxidation is a hint of aroma or taste reminiscent of sherry. Cheers! Martin

Vino: You have a lovely way with words. It is a compliment. I agree! Actually some wines improve with a bit of oxidation. That is why we often allow a red to breath before we pour a glass from the bottle. It is quite subjective. Like how much mould do you allow on your cheese before you discard it.

Take care

Bob Patrick

Agreed !

And do not forget the wonders that a little oxydation does to old vintage champagne or great old Bourgogne whites.

Ant then there's sherry...

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Speaking of cheese - is there a cheese newsgroup similiar to this wine newsgroup?

Well, there is alt.cheese, but it's more polluted with OT posts than even this group is.

Fruit flies are, in fact, the primary vector for acetobacter.

Andy

When wine goes bad, it goes very, very bad. Some wine goes as bad as Saddam Hussein or Caligula.

M.

I don't drink 'plonk'.

You tell 'im Mikey! Cleaning up AFW one poster at a time.....

Someone who has had more than high school chemistry (which I took thirty five years ago) help. Is the reaction that turns an alcohol to an aldehyde to an acid an oxidation reaction?

Tom Schellberg