Need help with French wine menu

in article snipped-for-privacy@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, DaleW at snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote on 10/28/05 6:42 AM:

No Dale, but very, very close. It's Mirabeau, about five miles South, and possibly highly influenced by French 75 (which, incidentally, gets very mixed reviews around here - always seems to be a love it or hate it kindof thing). There could be a connection via past associations of some kind. Thanks so much for the comments on the wine.

As to menu (for the other poster), there will be four of us, but all prefer reds, so I tried to focus only there. Most likely entrees would be beef or duck I'd think.

Please do me a favor and report back about restaurant. We'll be in Laguna Beach over Christmas, and will be looking for a place for at least one night (we mostly eat with Betsy's grandmother). I found Mirabeau in Dana Point on web, looks like it might be a possibilty (depending what we do about a car).

On that list, I'd probably go for the Joguet Chinon (by bottle). Joguet went through a rough patch in 90s, but the one 2000 I had was nice (different bottling). Likely to be on lighter side, though. If others favor bigger New World reds not a good choice. The Saintsbury Carneros PN is usually dependable, too.

Personally, if the duck you referred to is the one in orange sauce, that's a tough match. The Chinon is probably better than the Burg for that particular sauce, but even with rouge-centrics I'd probably get a

1/3 carafe of one of the Alsace PBs to try as an experiment- light for the duck, but better for the sauce.

Your best plan is probably to go to San Diego area. However, I read interesting things about The Vine in San Clemente. Gayot rates it

14/20, which is pretty good for that neck of the woods. Why such a wealthy area has such poor restaurants is beyond me.

Dimitri

Hmm, 70 miles to San Diego? Too much driving for me while on a short vacation.

Overall I agree it's surprising there's not more great places in OC, but its not enough of a wasteland to make me want to drive an hour+ (and if I did, it would probably be north to LA).

I actually liked 5 Feet a few years ago, although I've heard it has suffered as guy expanded (and is no longer regularly in kitchen).

Not a romantic place by a longshot, but had good seafood at a huge place (Gulfstream) in Newport couple years ago (and they waived corkage on 2 bottles after we bought a bottle).

If we're in doubt, we always go to Westminster for excellent Vietnamese food

I found 230 Forest in Laguna ok when we met Tom Shudic (TomS here) and Kriss from WLDG last year. Being able to walk is always a plus, and I think they charged us corkage for 2 bottles (and we opened 5-6).

Midlife wrote in news:BF879222.F417% snipped-for-privacy@cox.net:

If the duck has orange sauce ask if they can leave it off or do a cherry or raspberry sauce then go with the Chinon

Where is Mirabeau in Dana Point? I go there every 6 months and have found few good places other than Olemendras for Mexican. Tried Aqua in the Ritz-Carlton very expensive and just sos-so. I'm always looking for places. Have never found anything good other than Thai in San Clemente either.

in article snipped-for-privacy@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, DaleW at snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote on 10/28/05 11:51 AM:

My newsreader doesn't thread posts in a way that I can tell which respond directly to which, so I'll try to cover a few things in this one reply.

With apologies to those to whom none of this means anything in the slightest:

Mirabeau is at the corner of PCH and Crown Valley Parkway, in the Monarch Beach section of Dana Point. That center is also the home of Salt Creek Grille, if that helps. I'd be happy to report back on it, but the wife just has opted out in favor of a San Clemente venue called Iva Lee's instead. We'll get back to Mirabeau at some future date.

"Vine" (often called "The Vine", but there's no "The" in it) is our favorite in the area. It could, however, be problematic for Dale as the owner used to be chef at French 75. Not sure when or whether the food was the problem for Dale, but those are the facts. Vine's wine list is excellent, though small. It's mostly West Coast USA small-production gems.

Mongkut Thai (on Del Mar, in San Clemente) is extremely good. I'd bet that's the Thai being referred to.

230 Forest is, not coincidentally, at 230 Forest. Forest is the main shopping side street (off PCH) just South of Main Beach in Laguna.

The owner of Mirabeau told me her two favorite restaurants in the area are Vine and Iva Lee's, so it should be a good dinner any way we do it.

Neither of those is likely to be memorable, and both might taste thin if your palate is calibrated to CA.

As Dale said, a very decent $10-12 CdR. If you think Zin with a few meaty elements tossed in, you get the general idea.

A lackluster producer in a good year. Likely to be simple, fruity and soft (for the appellation) and medium bodied. Again, think lighter bodied Zin (Nalle?) with possibly notes of game and herbs and you won't be too far off.

Given your menu options, I might try the Belleruche, but that's just me.

Mark Lipton

"DaleW" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

Unfortunately, Dale, unless we confront the demons they never learn. I make a point of this with my cruise clients. No matter how good the place is, if they screw up a complaint must be made or no one will benefit from your pain. Sometimes they will come back and then I write the angry letter, but it only goes to some shore side guy and the correction in the restaurant may or may not be made.

I would have done the same with the wines, but would have pointedly noted to the waiter that the wine list was wrong.

in article snipped-for-privacy@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, DaleW at snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote on 10/29/05 6:51 AM:

I do remember your story now. As I think I may have said at the time, French

75 does seem to be a hit or miss proposition for a disappointingly large number of people. My son's girlfriend's family has loved it for years, yet I see posts similar to yours, on the regional board of Chowhound a lot. Wilhelm is quite successful, but that's not always a guarantee. We've never been disappointed at French 75, Savannah Chop House, or Chimayo, and Chat Noir tends to get only raves. He's got three new ones on the books too. I am surprised, though, that a thoughtful, constructive letter got no response. Very bad management practice to not at least acknowledge it. My knowledge of the company, overall, would tend to think it was not intentional, but????????

Studio is supposed to be excellent. It's also much more accessible for you, since Vine is another 10-15 miles South. Studio also has a dramatic ocean view that Vine doesn't have, but you pay at least a 30% premium for that.

I have come to conclude that restaurants are very much like wine in that, especially at the upper end, quality differences become much more subtle and reflect the palate and experience of the diner/drinker moreso than at the lower end. If I were to use The French Laundry as a benchmark, I'm sure my response would be very different to any of these places. It really does hinge on what you're used to in quality...... and value too. I've always felt that Orange County is missing a huge mid-range tier of great eateries that exist in places like New York and San Francisco. Maybe in a hundred years or so? OC was mostly orange groves just 25 years ago, and it's multi-cultural growth has only just begun in many locales. I really feel that's a big factor in what allows for great, authentic food value.

Midlife, Depending on what car access is like (Betsy's grandmother doesn't drive any more, so we might rent a car, or we might use her parent's car if they visit at same time, but otherwise we just walk around Laguna), I think Vine sounds worth the drive. I love good views, but am more food-focused for getting my money's worth (we'll have a drink at Las Brisas for view, or just walk around Montage!).

I think Orange County has some similarities to Westchester. There are 1 or 2 really good top end places here, a few mid-tier. But lots of eateries seem to succumb to the thought "well, we can't REALLY compete with city places, so why try."

I've noted all of your suggestions, thanks!

San Clemente.

I found it on web, looks like nice menu and wine list (or reasonable corkage).

Does look quite good. I will have to give it a try in February.