Need help learning to know French wine..... Really!!!

Midlife wrote in news:BD74578D.6EE6% snipped-for-privacy@cox.net:

You will find that in general a French wine that identifies the grape is not a "serious" French wine. That is not to confuse you but due to the fact that French wines are AOC controlled as to grape variety. One who buys for instance a St Emilion will expect a high Merlot, Cabernet Franc proportion in the blend. One who buys a red Burgundy can expect 100% Pinot Noir, a white, Chardonnay etc.

a good handy reference for all of these basics is Hugh Johnson's Pocket Wine Book.

in article Xns956A847E76F5B225stellar@216.196.97.136, jcoulter at snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote on 9/20/04 10:01 AM:

Thanks, but maybe I should clarify a bit. I do understand how the French system works, I just can't seem to commit the AOC-to-grape-variety formulas to memory. I was hoping someone could offer a trick or two.

It's likely to be as simple as the Visa card US Olympic TV commercials last month: "How do you get to the 2004 Summer Olympics? ...... Practice!.... Practice!..... Practice!".

Midlife wrote in news:BD746220.6EF0% snipped-for-privacy@cox.net:

Yes, we do it the old fashioned way, we learn it! Other than looking it up in a book there is no other way. Unless you know Cahors=Malbec or Rhone=Syrah (Unless it is southern and Grenache) then you can't figure it out without a scorecard. What happens is you learrn which style you like and then the grape varietal doesn't really matter. If you like St Emilion as opposed to St.Estephe there is a reason but does it matter?

Yes, it does matter.

Just because most wines of the Medoc are predominantly Cabernet based does not mean that Margaux is the same as Graves wines in style. Even if they % of Cabernet is the same. Your example was of Cab based vs Merlot based..but it goes more dramatic than that.

Therefore you need to concentrate on what you like and why so you can explore others.

Example many years ago I found I like Chateau Margaux. However I cannot afford that weekly. So I found suitable alternatives to be Rausan Segla, or Cheateau Brane Cantenac or Malesocot Exsupery--which are also wines of Margaux.

Using California wines as an example not all Napa Cabernets are the same. Rutherford wines experience that dusty quality. I don't know of any other Napa AOC that is that distintive.

So yes...I would say it does matter.

Found this book in a shop yesterday, and was tempted a bit to buy it myself. It basically is a dictionary of the French ACs. Sounds like just what you need. There are 1 or 2 whole pages devoted to each Appellation. Gives grape varieties, sub areas, tasting notes, aging recommendations, pretty pictures etc.

Alternatively, get hold of a good solid general wine text. For example

This is hardly the most exiting book in the world, but it is good for fuss-free information. It covers all wines, but France gets pride of place. I have read it from cover to cover and got on with it well. I think it will also answer your questions.

NB - I have given you links that will push a small percentage of the book price in my direction - I am an Amazon affiliate. Feel free to lop of the stirbitchcom09 bit of the URL if you object to this. I would recommend the books anyway.

Best wishes.

Just noticed one of the books I recommended is not available from Amazon.com. You could howver get it from Amazon.co.uk:

Hey Midlife, I have the same problem with French wines. I'm not looking for any "great" wines for my cellar, but I would like to become as familiar with +-$10 French wines as I am with wines from Australia, California and other parts of the USA in the same price range. I'm sure there are many very good French wines in this category, but how to find them?

BTW: After I "master" French wines, I'm going to tackle Germany. :-)

Dick

"Richard Neidich" wrote in news:NNE3d.7622$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

I hope I never gave that impression I was aiming for just the opposite choosing more radically different wines of Bordeaux as an example.

Even

I guess I wasn't being clear. The it to which I referred was the grape varietal composition. Since "it" varies from year to year at the wine makers discretion there just isn't an easy answer to the question and even wines of the same maker may have radically different qualities for year to year (the 96 and 97 Haut Veyrac St Emilion Grand Cru that I mentioned in another thread stand out as a very recent example for me), but there is a tendency for wines to conform to a general pattern within the appelation with the quality of the winemaker effecting the quality of the wine.

. If

Midlife, A few points, then I'll make a "crib sheet" for you.

1) As pointed out, terroir is important. Just as a RRV Pinot is very different from a Santa Barbera PN ( which is different from a Willamette PN, which is different from a Carneros PN, etc), Volnays tend to be quite different from Nuits-St-George (which are very different from RRV!). 2) Since we're talking varietal makeup, don't forget that many of those California cabernet sauvignons have up to 25% merlot, cab franc, or whatever. Knowing varietal is only a piece of the puzzle anywhere. 3) It's worth getting a basic book. 4) For purposes of a crib sheet, it's not that hard if you're in a wine shop, at least for the major regions. You might not be able to remember where Pommard is, but somewhere on label it says "red burgundy wine". Just as a Pomerol will say Bordeaux somewhere on label. :)

So here's a crib sheet that you could carry with you:

The major regions: Bordeaux will be a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Cabernet Franc, Malbec and Petit Verdot. Right Bank (Pomerol, St. Emilion and its offshoots, Lalande de Pomerol, Fronsac, etc) wines are usually mostly Merlot, though the better St. Emilions tend to have a good dose of Cab Franc (although Cheval Blanc is the only one I know that has more CabFranc than Merlot). Left Bank (St. Estephe, St. Julien, Margaux, Pauillac, Haut-Medoc ) wines tend to be more Cab-based. Which is also true (to a slightly lesser extent) in Graves/Pessac-Leognan.

Burgundy is Pinot Noir if red, Chardonnay if white. There are a few exceptions (bourgogne passetoutgrains, bourgogne aligote, Gouges Nuits-St. George, Sauvignon de St. Bris), but the rule will apply to 99.98% of Burgundy you'll find in US.

Alsace- the varietal is on the label (Riesling, Gewurztraminer, Pinot Gris, etc)

Rhone: Northern Rhone red wines (Cote-Rotie, Hermitage, Cornas, St-Joseph, Crozes-Hermitage) are all or mostly Syrah. Southern Rhone red wines (Chateauneuf-du-Pape, Gigondas, Vacqueyras, Cotes du Rhone )are almost all blends, with the primary grapes usually Grenache, Mouvedre, and Syrah.

The dry Loire whites you're most likely to see in US (Sancerre, Pouilly-Fume, Quincy) are Sauvignon Blanc , a few (Vouvray and Savennieres most prominent) are Chenin Blanc.

Beaujolais is Gamay. The Languedoc is somewhat similar to the Southern Rhone.

These wines (plus Champagne) probably represent 97%+ of French wines in an American wineshop. Budget based shops might have more VdP wines, but they will likely be varietally labeled. Once you have these down pat you can start on the areas like Cahors, Jura, etc. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

?????

Maybe on bottles labelled for the US market, but not over here. Or is that what your smiley is all about?

If I were to have a rant about French labelling it would be precisely over this. And I think the French are harming their market when only the cheaper Appellations proclaim themselves as Bordeaux or Bourgogne.

Steve Slatcher wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

YOu are right, US bottles reflect the larger area (Pommard as Red Burgudny wine for example (I just checked in my collection the US bought bottles say it the French bought wines, don't)))

Steve and JCoulter,

Actually, though I was writing for a US reader, I should have been more precise. Pretty sure this is an ATF requirement, and it's generally on the importer's part of label (which is sometimes a neck strip, or a strip just below main front label). Not on bottles I have that were bought in France. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Foreign languages always present a problem, wherever the wines come from. Why, though, would you want to learn more about F_____ wines? Italian wines are the ones to buy....

Sorry for the consusion.'

No no, you don't have to learn French. It's all about region. Learn some regions, and you'll get it. Basically the more expensive the wine is, the more specific it is in that region. So, Burgundy red = Pinot Noir. Burgundy white = Chardonnay. You should see the region somewhere on the bottle. If you see a more specific sub-region, like Cote de Beaune, it might cost a bit more. Then you'll see townships or specific vinyard or "house" like Chateau Blah du Blah Blah. That might not have the region listed on it, but you don't care because that wine's too expensive anyway. The other big region is Bordeaux, and that's a little more complicated, but basically Bordeaux red = Cabernet Sauvignon (with a little Merlot etc. mixed in.)

Good summary.

Don't forget a much overlooked region that is available in the US, Champagne. Varietals are some blend of Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Pinot Meunier. Sometimes made with only one variety. In the best cases, to be tasted the same way as a "regular" wine...

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Indeed, good point Michael. The main reason I didn't go into Champagne was that OP was from CA, and there the bubbly composition is generally same as here (and they use the French terms for the single variety bubblies). I also didn't want to get distracted into one of my "Champagne is only from Champagne" tirades. Dale (who spent last night saying "no, I DIDN'T bring Champagne, that's Prosecco") Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Prosecco, that's the Champagne form Italy right?

;-)

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

No...Marco Polo Stole that from China too with the pasta :-)