Organic Wine Now

] In article , Mike Tommasi ] writes: ] ] >In the biodynamic crowd, like I said, I dislike the weird ] >pseudo-science about it, but almost all biodynamic growers seem driven ] >by a desire to make truly great wine. ] >

] ] Yes - my theory is that while some of the more bizarre parts might not really ] help, they don't hurt, and the immense amount of effort required to do things ] biodynamically means that you mostly get only growers who really care about ] their products. ] [snip]

Hi Dale,

Actually just had dinner with a organic (bio not biodynamic) farmer -- although veg not grapes. We had a conversation about biodynamics, his opinion was that some of the more constraining practices _can_ hurt: his example was having to prune when the weather is optimal, not the phase of the moon.

There are certainly some biodynamic farmers making some great wine, though as has been pointed out it is the grapes and not the wine that is biodynamic.

Ah, anthroposophy... reminds me of my wasted youth! :)

-E

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:43:15 +0200, Mike Tommasi took the time to tell us :

Mike, their are many certified organic wine makers in Oz now. Did a recent in store promo with 7 different organic wines. As I had previously discovered at various wine shows, whilst there were many 'drinkable' wines, none I found 'sang' to me. Until the night of the tasting. Found a luscious drop from Bendigo (Victoria) by a winery named "Avonmore"...... plums and strawberry.... and was by far the hit of the night.

There seems to be 2 branches to the trend. One that retain some form of the dreaded 220.... and the NO Preservative types. The latter I am still unimpressed by, and worry about stocking them from a retail perspective due to questionable longevity. However, simple organic wines are coming along well.

Regards Swooper

that would be the correct impression that you are under.

Salut/Hi Matthew,

le/on 6 Apr 2004 14:44:35 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

You can't REALLY think about wine as if it were jello, you know. And no. that's not exactly the reason they add sulphites, but go on.

In this context, what are chemicals?

Salt? Sugar? Yeast? Lemon juice? Vitamin C? Citric or Tartaric acids? I'm not being silly, but it seems to me that you may be making a set of entirely false assumptions.

Sulphites occur naturally in the fermentation process. We've a whole thread devoted to that at the moment. Almost since wine making began, wine makers have either burnt sulphur "candles" in their barrels, or injected them with SO" or washed them with potassium metabisulphite AKA camden tablets, to kill off unwanted yeasts and bacteria and to prevent the wine from oxidising. Of course you have every right to seek to find wines where winemakers _don't_ use sulphites in one form or another, but you won't find a truly sulphite free wine. Furthermore, a wine made without any addition of sulphites is likely to be very unstable and could well become very unpleasant.

There are many producers that do NSA wines (No sulphites added). I don't know who fits that bill outside my local area.... but here in BC Summerhill is NSA.

I'm a little bit confused here with this discussion on sulfites. Sulfites have little to do with Organic Wine?

Sulfites are a natural substance and have been used for ages. Sure there are negative side effects from over (and under) use and this is why there are regulations for their use.

Shouldn't the real discussion over Organic Wines focus on the residual chemicals in the wines left by the deadly pesticides generously used during the growing season, cleaning agents and other chemicals used during wine making?

- It is common knowledge that certain pesticides used near the time of harvest impede fermentation

- I suspect that headaches brought on by drinking wine are caused by several factros: sulfites, histamines and by other residual chemicals in the wine

Joe

Don't forget over-consumption on that list! ;)

It is not a mater of extending the shelf life like putting preservatives in milk. It is a matter of protecting it so it can age. If all you want is young wine, then you can get by without sulfites. But if you want to let the wine reach the glory of real maturity of over 3 years old, then you are not going to do it without sulfites. That is, unless you don't mind flat tasting, oxidized wine.

Ray

What level or ppm of sulfites was in the wine? What was the PH? How long was the sulfite added prior to tasting? How long was the sulfite added prior to botteling? What was the level of FREE SO2?

If you dont know the answer to these questions than your little experimentation was nothing more tha a meanlingless utterance.

Most people can detect SO2 around 50-100ppm,, far more than is needed in most wines. Some can detect the wine in lower levels. SO2 has been known to bind the nose of wine after addition, with time,, the wine opens up again. The wine with no sulfites may taste better now,, but most likely that would change.

Of

FWIW, Tony Coturri of Coturri Wines makes his wines without adding sulphites and labels it as "no added sulphites". I recently asked him ablut the stability issue and he produced four bottles of Cabernet Sauvignon from his library from various vintages in the 80's and all were quite tasty. Certainly aging as one would expect but not unpleasant. Bi!!

See previous post regarding Coturri Cabs but I have had the Zins and to be honest, I'm not a big fan of their Zins even when they're new! But I have had them at 5-6 years old and they were still stable if not big rustic and sweet. I have a bottle of 1994 Zin that I would be happy to send you if you promise to post one of your reviews. If the wine is objectionable, I'll send you a replacement from my cellar of something that you're sure to enjoy. I have no affiliation with Coturri (or any other wine maker or retailer for that matter). Bi!!

right on Charles!

I have often wondered if strong alcohol level (>13%) may also be a factor?

Joe

Yes, yes, I'm learning this is correct.

Here's my experience with Coturri (all from others' cellars, those sweet raisiny almost-portish Zins were never my fave, never bought):

1 bottle of Zin ('95?)that was totally undrinkable, something horribly funky about it. 2 or 3 bottles of Zin (all from '90s)that ranged from having a bit of VA to being liable to send a sniffer to a VA hospital. 2 bottles of Coturri cab ('85 Alexander Valley Miller Vineyard and '90 Coturri Sonoma County Remich Ridge Vineyard ) that each showed minor VA, and came in dead last in their respective flights at a '85/'90 showdown (against modest opponents like Sequoia Ridge and Simi Reserve).

That being said, bring it on! Send me an email (just drop the damnspam) , I'll send you my address along with a list of potential trade wines (I'll pick something with some equivalent controversy). We have to be fair re this. I promise to give it a fair shot. Deal is you have to promise to post on wine I send, too.

I started to say we should taste wines blind, but I don't think I own a wine that could be mistaken for a Coturri Zin under any circumstances. But I will try to separate my stylistic preferences from any comments on actual technical flaws.

Thanks! Dale

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