"The deal closer"

With a creme brulee, you couldn't do better than an Australian Rutherglen Tokay.

Kieran

Salut/Hi R&M,

le/on 18 Sep 2004 18:42:23 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

Can't improve on Ogden Nash

Candy is Dandy but Liquor is quicker.

As a second authority Michael Flanders said

"Have some madeira m'dear!"

The moral of the story is "keep it potent".

As for dessert wines, The late and great Cyril Ray is against Beaumes de Venise

"I was sitting there, taking my ease, and enjoying my Beaumes de Venise With a charming young poppet, But she told me to stop it, As my fingers crept up past her knees..."

He warns you to beware of Irish Mist.

"With the coffee, Tom said, '"I insist That we each have a large Irish Mist,' But then was unable To make it with Mabel On account of having become alcoholically incapacitated...

But if that does happen, Mr Ray has a sovereign remedy

"There's this to be said for Verdicchio That whenever the going gets Sticchio, It increases the strength and the breadth and the length when applied to the Gentleman's pricchio..."

Ian, I have been on the island from Aug 30 to Sept 6 - my first trip. Really amazing, and nothing I have ever seen like (but then I am not a frequent traveller).

The wines are from quite good to sublime, and we tasted back to

First, never store it on the side, always upright. Second, once opened it keeps its quality for months, if not years, it's quasi indestructible. Third, I once asked a producer if he ever has has a bottle "over the hill". He did not even know the expression. "Yes, very seldom a corked bottle or a rare single one turned bad

- but never a whole batch!".

In the IVM, the "Instituto do Vinho da Madeira" they do quite a lot of things (including a tasting of every batch leaving the island; bulk exports are reduced to batches that go to the food/sweets industry) - but upon my question they openly admitted that the do not tend to investigate into the legend (or truth?) that sercial was riesling.

Yes, Madeira is quite a mystery.

M.

a quart of "andre' cold duck" always worked for me throughout high school. it's even more effective (and eventually less messy) on an empty stomach - don't feed her!

Hi "R", A filet mignon would certainly demand a good Cabernet or Zinfandel, and for

In reply to R&M's dilemma, "Dick R." threw in his $0.02 thus......

At least not until the second date...

pavane

Geez. Why take chances, why not just slip some GHB, rohypnol or ketamine into her drink, if the goal is just to get a date into the sack?

OK, I'm not actually suggesting doing so, in fact, I'm suggesting that selecting a wine with the intention of getting a date drunk enough to do something they wouldn't otherwise do sober is unethical. I don't mean to be overly harsh, I'm just calling it the way I see it.

"R in san diego" asked about a nice dessert wine.

Maybe a relatively inexpensive bottle of Beringer Nightingale would be satisfying?

Dana

Hi Ian,

As a matter of interest, just in the last couple of days I read/saw/heard somewhere that some vineyards in Slovakia have successfully argued their right to use "Tokaji".

Something to do with how borders changed during the turmoils of the 20th century.

So, you can look forward to seeing some wines legitimately called "Slovakian Tokay"

a.t.b.

Filet mignon tends to be very delicate, depending on what it is flavored with (it's almost always flavored with something or served with a sauce). Something like a New World Pinot Noir might have the density and body that a CS or Zin would bring but be better suited to the delicate flavors of filet mignon. BevMo has a decent Estancia PN on sale for $10 right now ;-)...

I've found that a nice New York steak is generally a better combination of tenderness and inherent flavor to work well with a California CS or Zinfandel...

Mondavi makes a truly delightful Sauvignon Blanc Botrytis that's mildly expensive but plush as pillow, it's superb dessert fare. I mentioned in another note Beringer's Nightingale, which is quite nice and, though I can't recall the exact price, I remember it being reasonable. Beaulieu Vineyards makes a fortified Muscat, Muscat de Beaulieu, which is also relatively inexpensive and consistently nice, though not as nice as the above suggestions.

Cheers! Dana

Salut/Hi Kieran,

le/on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:59:46 +1000, tu disais/you said:-

Yes indeed. Actually the place name is Tokaj. The very famous wine made from it, Tokaji Aszu or Tokaji Eszencia had its name westernised to "Tokay" and that was the name winemakers used to try to pass off their wines as the exclusive and expensive real thing. Alsace used to call their weines made from Pinot Gris "Tokay d'Alsace", and have accepted that after a 10 year transition via "Tokay - Pinot Gris", the use of "Tokay" will no longer be permitted.

In Australia, the situation is a little different. Without going through the whole sad history of the relations between the UK and australian wine making, the Brits used Australia as a place where cheap copies of classic wines would be made and sent to Britain. So we used to have Australian Burgundy, Port, Sherry and Tokay. With the UK's entry into Europe, this lamentable practice had to stop and at last quality Australian wines (hitherto unkown in Europe) could begin to stand on their own feet. However _in Australia_ you still sell wines as "Port, Sherry etc" Tokay is a case slightly apart, as Hungary was part of the Communist Bloc and therefore was ill-placed to defend itself as effectively as did Portugal (Port) and Spain (Sherry). The fact that you don't know _anything_ about Tokaji proves just how much of an abuse the "borrowing" of the name has proven.

In fact, as I discovered when we visited Rutherglen about 3 years ago, Tokay is used to describe a sweet wine made from a grape known as Muscadelle elsewhere. It's excellent, in a slightly syrupey way, but bears absolutely no comparison with Tokaji Aszu.

For the same reason as Coonawarra Terre Rouge can't be made from grapes grown in Western Australia.

Actually, I feel that if the growers of quality "liqueur Tokay" were to put their considerable energy and skill to marketing a wine with the name of "Sweet Muscadelle" (I wouldn't have worried about "liqueur" personally, as it doesn't ape any other wine region), they could easily give it the required cachet.

Salut/Hi st.helier,

le/on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:45:55 +1200, tu disais/you said:-

Tokaj. Tokaji is "from tokaj" as Wehlen_er_ is "from Wehlen" in German.

With much bleating, I might add.

It IS historical, it IS traditional and it IS passing off. Ask 1000 autralians what Tokay is, and almost without exception, they will describe an Australian wine. I don't blame the winemakers for resisting, even if I believe very strongly that they are in the wrong.

I'd be quite happy with Liqueur Muscadelle. I know it's a bit close to "Liqueur Muscat", but the difference _could_ be maintained, I feel.

True.

Very true. It's delish!

Salut/Hi st.helier,

le/on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:04:41 +1200, tu disais/you said:-

yes. This has been a matter of "discussion" for several years, since 1989, in fact. Before the breakup and sale of the state winery, they alone decided what was and wasn't acceptable. Tough shit if you were outside their designated area.

The Trianon treaty in 1920. Transylvania (formerly part of Hungary) was given to Roumania, the whole of the present Czech and Slovakian republic south of the Tatras (formerly part of Hungary) became part of a new country "Czechoslovakia". The semi autonomous provinces of Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Albania, etcia (formerly part of Hungary) were made into Albania and Yugoslavia, and Hungary was left with 1/3 of the land area that it possessed (as part of the Austro-hungarian Empire) before the '14-'18 war. So it is indeed true that parts of Slovakia make wine in the same way as Tokaji Aszu, and have some legitimacy in their historical claims. I'd be a lot happier if they made the wine half as carefully as the Hungarians do.

I wonder how long it will be before some enterprising investor tries to replicate what some have done in Hungary. Until then, I guess the wine will largely be consumed locally.

Kia Ora "Ian Hoare", who correctly corrected His Lordship - thus......

Yes, I saw my gaff immediately I had posted - and in a flash, knew who it would be to point out the error of my ways :-)))

Ian Hoare stated: "As a second authority Michael Flanders said "Have some madeira m'dear!"."

This reminded me that I thought I had a recording using that play of words. It might have been Elsa Lanchester in her Bawdy Cockney Songs series. However I did not find anything about Maderia listed in any of the 22 song titles, and I do not have time to listen to all of these songs just now. Some of the jewels in this series are "Linda and Her Londonderry Air", "The Ruined Maid", "Rat Catcher's Daughter", "When a Lady Has a Piazza", and "Mrs. Badger-Butts." These songs are tame by today's standards, but Lanchester was a master of double innuendo. She could make even the most ordinary word seem somewhat naughty.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net from my email address. Then add snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com . I do not check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

while the responses to date have been impressive in addressing the nuances, i fear that we've strayed from the original inquiry ...

he isn't asking for a lesson geography - he isn't asking for a symposium on the merits or subtleties of a given product ....

the poor guy just wants to get laid and he's relying on alcohol to supplement any shortfall in animal magnetism.

i still vote for cold duck! he can get a case of the stuff within his $25 budget.

"Mike Stanton" wrote in news:KEI3d.13785$ snipped-for-privacy@fe1.texas.rr.com:

Oh, did I wander into the "boys-only" alt.food.wine? Can someone direct me back to the ladies lounge? ;)

Yes, I remember you mentioned earlier that it assisted you with your "shortfall" ;P

d:PPP PS - Bordeaux...

there are always a few folks who can't take a joke - or grasp one.

"shortfall" when you're 16 and dealing with virgins of proximate age is one thing. by the time you're old enough to legally buy alcohol, you shouldn't need it.

we never considered that the original post was legit - we assumed that it was intended to be humorous - who would actually advertise such real desperation publicly? we were simply trying to join in the fun.

our apologies to anyone who needs to validate relationships or self-esteem by means of something so mundane and insignificant as rotten fruit juice.

to everyone else, hope we gave you a chuckle.

"it ain't plasma!!!!"