TN: 1990 Bordeaux at Riverpark NYC

A bubbly and a white to start:

it more acid. B

my tolerance, but surprising. B/B+

some spice, midbodied and elegant. B+/A-

ote, but not extreme, and with a long finish. B+

y Pomerol. Gets my WOTN vote by a hair over the Clinet. A-

velvety, some minty herb. A-

peas, really very good (others really liked their lamb)

t bad just a little foursquare compared to tablemates. B

name I missed

e, B a good wine, C drinkable. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice.Furthermore, I offer no promises of objecti vity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

Dale-Thanks for the notes. Just curious, in my various wine groups the sto rage and purchase condition of some wines are unknown. For the most part m y wines were bought on release from the distributor and stored at 55F and g enerally speaking my bottles are fresher, younger and less advanced than ma ny others at our tastings. In blind tastings the joke is that my bottles a re the easiest to pick out because they are the youngest. So, when you pos t notes do you consider the bottle condition or do you just figure that the se bottles represent a pretty good picture of where the wine actually is by and large? I know it's a complex question but often when I read your note s I try to project them onto the bottles I have and decide if I should ope n, hold or sell. Thanks

t. A bubbly and a white to start:

bit more acid. B

in my tolerance, but surprising. B/B+

, some spice, midbodied and elegant. B+/A-

note, but not extreme, and with a long finish. B+

rly Pomerol. Gets my WOTN vote by a hair over the Clinet. A-

, velvety, some minty herb. A-

d peas, really very good (others really liked their lamb)

Not bad just a little foursquare compared to tablemates. B

e name I missed

ine, B a good wine, C drinkable. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice.Furthermore, I offer no promises of objec tivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

torage and purchase condition of some wines are unknown. For the most part my wines were bought on release from the distributor and stored at 55F and generally speaking my bottles are fresher, younger and less advanced than many others at our tastings. In blind tastings the joke is that my bottles are the easiest to pick out because they are the youngest. So, when you p ost notes do you consider the bottle condition or do you just figure that t hese bottles represent a pretty good picture of where the wine actually is by and large? I know it's a complex question but often when I read your no tes I try to project them onto the bottles I have and decide if I should o pen, hold or sell. Thanks

Just to chime in here, we have several members of our wine group who bring tired, over-the-hill bottles more than once. Have never figured out a polit e way to deal with that.

torage and purchase condition of some wines are unknown. For the most part my wines were bought on release from the distributor and stored at 55F and generally speaking my bottles are fresher, younger and less advanced than many others at our tastings. In blind tastings the joke is that my bottles are the easiest to pick out because they are the youngest. So, when you p ost notes do you consider the bottle condition or do you just figure that t hese bottles represent a pretty good picture of where the wine actually is by and large? I know it's a complex question but often when I read your no tes I try to project them onto the bottles I have and decide if I should o pen, hold or sell. Thanks

Bill, I try to note if overtly tired, and we usually discuss provenance/storage i n those cases. My bottle (the Conseillante) was sourced in 2005 (after it w as my WOTN in a tasting with this group) privately from someone who bought EP. I think that the majority of these were sourced retail or at reputable auction, there are only a few members who have 1990s from release (I start ed in wine about time 1990s came out, but have drunk all my original purcha se '89 and '90 Bdx, the oldest I have that I'm sole owner of are '95 and '9

6s). But one of the reasons this group started was to avoid the situation we wer e running into at "offlines" (tastings organized through wine boards) where there were people showing up with bottles sourced from corner liquor store s, off Winebid, etc. It's irritating to bring a bottle you had stored or pa id a premium for, and some winehunter shows up with a bottle that's clearly cooked.

Overall I think we have pretty good showings. I have wines I bought at Wine bid, but I would not usually bring/serve to this group (or my other serious group, SOBER) without a disclaimer and a backup bottle. Even though I was sure of provenance AND double-decanted the La Conseillante, I carried a '90 Lagrange as a backup. You can never tell till you open, but no one in this group brings bottles with seepage or questionable fills.

That said, in an ideal world I should probably try to list provenance of bo ttles But that is complicated, too. Paul keeps his cellar at 53, others at

55, I have wines in commercial storage (55) and two separate cellars. One i s totally passive, with slow seasonal swings from 50 to 70. The main cellar is semi-passive, naturally swings slowly from maybe 47 to 66-68, but I put in a room AC to bring it down to 65 if I see a heatwave coming. And some b ottles have moved (no matter where they were before my acquisition) from on e of my passive cellars to commercial storage and vice versa. :)

g tired, over-the-hill bottles more than once. Have never figured out a pol ite way to deal with that.

As I noted to Bill, this particular group was founded partly to avoid the w oes of publicly organized tastings where some people showed up regularly wi th iffy bottles. If someone does that regularly, the question is do they know they're doing it? If not, a gentle lesson in careful sourcing (provenance, reputation of retailers or auction houses, checking fills and capsule conditions) and car eful storage might be all that's needed. If intentional (I'll bring this se eping bottle with midshoulder fill and be able to drink others' good stuff) I'd just drop from invite list.

storage and purchase condition of some wines are unknown. For the most pa rt my wines were bought on release from the distributor and stored at 55F a nd generally speaking my bottles are fresher, younger and less advanced tha n many others at our tastings. In blind tastings the joke is that my bottl es are the easiest to pick out because they are the youngest. So, when you post notes do you consider the bottle condition or do you just figure that these bottles represent a pretty good picture of where the wine actually i s by and large? I know it's a complex question but often when I read your notes I try to project them onto the bottles I have and decide if I should open, hold or sell. Thanks

in those cases. My bottle (the Conseillante) was sourced in 2005 (after it was my WOTN in a tasting with this group) privately from someone who bough t EP. I think that the majority of these were sourced retail or at reputab le auction, there are only a few members who have 1990s from release (I sta rted in wine about time 1990s came out, but have drunk all my original purc hase '89 and '90 Bdx, the oldest I have that I'm sole owner of are '95 and '96s).

ere running into at "offlines" (tastings organized through wine boards) whe re there were people showing up with bottles sourced from corner liquor sto res, off Winebid, etc. It's irritating to bring a bottle you had stored or paid a premium for, and some winehunter shows up with a bottle that's clear ly cooked.

nebid, but I would not usually bring/serve to this group (or my other serio us group, SOBER) without a disclaimer and a backup bottle. Even though I wa s sure of provenance AND double-decanted the La Conseillante, I carried a '

90 Lagrange as a backup. You can never tell till you open, but no one in th is group brings bottles with seepage or questionable fills.

bottles But that is complicated, too. Paul keeps his cellar at 53, others a t 55, I have wines in commercial storage (55) and two separate cellars. One is totally passive, with slow seasonal swings from 50 to 70. The main cell ar is semi-passive, naturally swings slowly from maybe 47 to 66-68, but I p ut in a room AC to bring it down to 65 if I see a heatwave coming. And some bottles have moved (no matter where they were before my acquisition) from one of my passive cellars to commercial storage and vice versa. :)

Thanks Dale. I was just trying to get an idea of the overall provenence of the groups wines as I too have endured tastings where bottles were stored under the sink, etc. I was just trying to get a feel for the condition of the wines as I have many of the wines that you listed and wanted to judge d rink or hold based on good normal bottles from reputable sources.

he storage and purchase condition of some wines are unknown. For the most part my wines were bought on release from the distributor and stored at 55F and generally speaking my bottles are fresher, younger and less advanced t han many others at our tastings. In blind tastings the joke is that my bot tles are the easiest to pick out because they are the youngest. So, when y ou post notes do you consider the bottle condition or do you just figure th at these bottles represent a pretty good picture of where the wine actually is by and large? I know it's a complex question but often when I read you r notes I try to project them onto the bottles I have and decide if I shou ld open, hold or sell. Thanks

ge in those cases. My bottle (the Conseillante) was sourced in 2005 (after it was my WOTN in a tasting with this group) privately from someone who bou ght EP. I think that the majority of these were sourced retail or at reput able auction, there are only a few members who have 1990s from release (I s tarted in wine about time 1990s came out, but have drunk all my original pu rchase '89 and '90 Bdx, the oldest I have that I'm sole owner of are '95 an d '96s).

were running into at "offlines" (tastings organized through wine boards) w here there were people showing up with bottles sourced from corner liquor s tores, off Winebid, etc. It's irritating to bring a bottle you had stored o r paid a premium for, and some winehunter shows up with a bottle that's cle arly cooked.

Winebid, but I would not usually bring/serve to this group (or my other ser ious group, SOBER) without a disclaimer and a backup bottle. Even though I was sure of provenance AND double-decanted the La Conseillante, I carried a '90 Lagrange as a backup. You can never tell till you open, but no one in this group brings bottles with seepage or questionable fills.

f bottles But that is complicated, too. Paul keeps his cellar at 53, others at 55, I have wines in commercial storage (55) and two separate cellars. O ne is totally passive, with slow seasonal swings from 50 to 70. The main ce llar is semi-passive, naturally swings slowly from maybe 47 to 66-68, but I put in a room AC to bring it down to 65 if I see a heatwave coming. And so me bottles have moved (no matter where they were before my acquisition) fro m one of my passive cellars to commercial storage and vice versa. :)

of the groups wines as I too have endured tastings where bottles were store d under the sink, etc. I was just trying to get a feel for the condition o f the wines as I have many of the wines that you listed and wanted to judge drink or hold based on good normal bottles from reputable sources.

My question involves what I call cellar cleaning. A forgotten box in someon es cellar contains a wine or two that match our requirements for the tastin g but often are tired and insipid wines. And they are often proudly brought as a prize that escaped notice so I don't think there is any intent to def raud, just plain poor judgement.

Larry, it doesn't require outright fraud, just a cheap streak or poor judgement. There have been a few notorious wine board characters who were "renowned" for bringing tired/corked/cheap bottles to offlines. That's one powerful reason to form your own tasting group with people you know and trust. Dale's SOBER group consists mostly of wine industry types who are totally above reproach. Those of us who don't live in major metropolitan areas can't quite assembly such an august grouping of fellow winos ;-)

Mark Lipton

One of our wine groups is dying on the vine and we need a new one but this is second one we formed and it always seems to be the same people anyhow no matter what group we form. I'm in Santa Fe and we pull from a max populati on of 150K so it is difficult to find people and getting younger people in is always an issue so I will probably end up just tasting with a few friend s with cellars.

s is second one we formed and it always seems to be the same people anyhow no matter what group we form. I'm in Santa Fe and we pull from a max popula tion of 150K so it is difficult to find people and getting younger people i n is always an issue so I will probably end up just tasting with a few frie nds with cellars.

Its always a struggle to get enough people for my tastings. I doodle, and f ind the best date. this monday we were looking to be 10 people, and yesterd ay we were looking to be 6 people. Luckilly, some of the 6 managed to bring in 2 more. Nowadays, most people, even those from wine making countries ju st prefer a casual industrial beer. However, when they come to my tastings, they are often surprised at how wines can taste, and think that all the wi nes I choose are better than the wines they get at store-hosted tastings,

his is second one we formed and it always seems to be the same people anyho w no matter what group we form. I'm in Santa Fe and we pull from a max popu lation of 150K so it is difficult to find people and getting younger people in is always an issue so I will probably end up just tasting with a few fr iends with cellars.

find the best date. this monday we were looking to be 10 people, and yeste rday we were looking to be 6 people. Luckilly, some of the 6 managed to bri ng in 2 more. Nowadays, most people, even those from wine making countries just prefer a casual industrial beer. However, when they come to my tasting s, they are often surprised at how wines can taste, and think that all the wines I choose are better than the wines they get at store-hosted tastings,

Ours is a max of 18 people with a minimum of 15 so we have been doing badly over the last few months. Don't know why.