WAY OFF TOPIC


This has nothing to do with wine, wine storage, books, movies, comic-books. Years of neglect, corruption and false bonhomie, have shown our politicians of all stripes and position to be either inept or oblivious. Its like Mock J singing Salt of The Earth over and over.
I sent this my to local paper . Pardon the interruption.
Disasters: Nature's and Man Made
Watching on Television and the Newspapers, the effects of Hurricane K, I am struck with the ferocity of Nature's phenomena especially juxtaposed against a civilization that can not predict and thus control outcomes. We can however do our best in cleaning up the mess and seeing to it our infrastructures can deal with the consequences. To put in bluntly-are we ready for a disaster? Are our buildings roads, dams, levees, maintained to as to prevent not contribute to loss? Are our rescue resources; human, transportation, lodging ready to act on Day One?
In a war against terror, a war for the hearts and minds of the Islamic World, we preach order and democracy, yet the images of the last days has been pictures of people without the means of escape, people of colour who've been left to fend for themselves; prey for hunger, thirst and physical danger. Where is the respect for our own citizens when we allow looting and armed theft to go on under the TV cameras but not law enforcement's. In a day or so we'll have all the troops, trucks, food and water the survivors will need, but the images of people angry, frustrated and abandoned will last longer. We denounced the looting of Baghdad a few years ago, but that is what most of the world remembers from our invasion of Iraq; how long will the images from Hurricane Katrina be replayed in the minds of friends, foes and those we want to respect us?
Joseph B. Rosenberg
Reply to
Joseph B. Rosenberg

Good thought.
Unfortunately had our national guard been here at Home we would have had the personnel there to enforce law/order. This only shows us how unprepared we are due to the war effort. Because the national guard is now the international guard we have little support on the home front and that scares me.
Sorry to my off topic response.
Reply to
Richard Neidich

In article , snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net says...
Dear Beppe,
I did not SNIP anything, as I agree with your words, wholeheartedly. Also, as one with a very "vested" interest in that area of the world, I am deeply saddened. I've hung on every word, and every image on FOX, CNN & the US national news. I have placed "blame" many times over. In the first few hours of the second disaster, and that is what New Orleans is, my family had formulated several plans for the intervention, and relief, and now, four days later, some are being implemented. I am very sad at the lapse of time, but then buracracy runs slowly.
Thank you for your perspective on the events. I appreciate that others care, even if they do not have family, or friends in harm's way.
The good note is that all of our family has been accounted for, and now we are working to connect with our friends affected by these two disasters.
Also, Phoenix hospitals are rallying to offer any support necessary to the stricken areas in MS, AL and LA.
Again, thank you for your thoughts, Hunt
Reply to
Hunt

In article , snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net says...
Richard,
One note, the call from LA for national support was actually three days in coming. The guard units around the country have been mobilized, and have begun arriving in two days. Yes, the timing was all wrong, but because the Guard cannot act on its own, much time was lost, basically due to the lack of a disaster plan by the government of Louisiana.
A sad note indeed, and thank you very much for your concern, Hunt
Reply to
Hunt

"Richard Neidich" wrote
Dick, I would be more scared that I lived in a country which needed armed protection in the first place.
You see, if this disaster occurred in most other civilised countries in this world, armed criminals would not be taking pot-shots at their fellow man during their darkest hours.
There is something radically rotten with the core of US society, when this sort of thing happens.
Tragically, all too many cannot smell it.
I applaud your words Joe Rosenberg - you country needs more like you!
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st.helier

(And before any red-blooded Americans consider coming down here and kicking 
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Reply to
st.helier

] The good note is that all of our family has been accounted for, and now we are ] working to connect with our friends affected by these two disasters.
That at least is some very good news. Best wishes.
-E
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Emery Davis
You can reply to emeryamazon@ebayadelka.com
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Reply to
Emery Davis

With out a doubt there is something wrong. Its called poverty. The majority of the people that seem to stay behind in New Orleans were black, impoverished people, likely undereducated, that did not have the means to leave. It is sad.
I agree that it would be a shame for the need to armed persons but the reality is the National Guard is usually called out for these types of issues. My guess is had their been 15000 in the streets the evacuation would have been more complete in advance of the hurricane. Secondly had they been there right afterwars we would not have had the civil unrest.
I am very saddened by the loss of so many lives, property, jobs. It will take a long time for this city to recover and the people to get their lives back in order.
Reply to
Richard Neidich

I believe that it is just a little too short sighted and arrogant to think that the actions of a few ignorant individuals constitutes the "core" of ANY society.
It's strikingly funny how every time something bad happens to the US people blame the country, the people, the government, whatever. If the same or a similar situation happens somewhere else in the world it is simply a "natural disaster."
Far too often those that know too little speak too often.
Reply to
Mike

Mike, I do think that there were several key issues here with the blame game that are factors in all this:
1) Go to factcheck.org and you will find starting in 2001 the budget was cut dramatically on the levee project. In fact over a 80% cut from 2001-2005. They knew the levees would breach.
2) Shortage of national guard to aid security
3) Shortage of leadership local, state and fed.
4) To much bureaucracy red tape with Local, state, fed.
5) WE THE PEOPLE elect officials that are NOT qualified. We need to pay more attention at local levels.
We are all guilty here.
What burns me is that with all the above points if this was anywhere else in the world we would have been there in 1-2 days with assistance. But in this country we cannot respond as fast.
Snip
"I believe that it is just a little too short sighted and arrogant to think that the actions of a few ignorant individuals constitutes the "core" of ANY society.
It's strikingly funny how every time something bad happens to the US people blame the country, the people, the government, whatever. If the same or a similar situation happens somewhere else in the world it is simply a "natural disaster."
Far too often those that know too little speak too often."
Reply to
Richard Neidich

"Mike" wrote in message
Mike, Perhaps I should let sleeping dogs lie, but I simply cannot help myself, perhaps it is the short-sightedness and arrogance (I plead guilty to both charges - your honour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
A few ignorant individuals? Is that all? We are talking about armed criminals shooting at police, paramedics and their fellow citizens here, aren't we?
And, no, it is definitely *not* funny in any way - and please don't say that you actually condone this sort of action, because it certainly reads as though you are defending this as "the American way" of dealing with a natural disaster.
Hey - elsewhere in the world, natural disasters occur, and people "pull together" - hell's teeth man, a civil war in Aceh was put aside in the name of humanity, whilst both sides (and the rest of the world) rushed to the aid of the Tsunami disaster.
OK - no doubt there were lootings, but, not even the Tamil Tigers declared war on their own Sri Lankan enemies during their hour of need.
Of course, Katrina *was* a disaster of monumental proportions - but Mike, please understand that this is a very small world.
Joe Beppe can pass wind in Baltimore, and we will know about it here in New Zealand in minutes.
Maybe you would like to hush up this sort of abhorrent behaviour - particularly as the US stands as this paragon of democratic virtue (in its own eyes anyhow).
You say....
Well, where I come from, free speech is *true* freedom - and we treasure the right to speak out.
You may not like it, but your beloved US *does* have double standards when it comes to free trade, and your government *does* bully smaller allies like New Zealand, just because we, as a nation choose to say "no" to nuclear weapons and power.
I choose to exercise my right to free speech, because if I do not, and bow to those who would rather this whole thing was *not* aired, then, one day, we just may loose that right - and it won't be our enemies which extinguish that right - it will be our (so called) friends.
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st.helier
Reply to
st.helier

The real issue here is poverty and lack of education.
Criminal element is found in all communities. The poor and uneducated really own nothing. New Orleans had 25% below the poverty line.
It was a shame but that was only a few in reality.
If there were 250000 left to evacuate make 100 with guns shooting. Very small % but bad news nonetheless.
Reply to
Richard Neidich

Salut/Hi Richard Neidich,
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No Dick, the real issue here is that this whole thread is entirely off topic.
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All the Best
Ian Hoare
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Reply to
Ian Hoare

True you are.
Quick Question...if the entire thread says in Subject line "Way off Topic" is that allowed?" "Should it be?"
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Reply to
Richard Neidich

Yes, it was a _few_ individuals and that's exactly who you're talking about... armed _criminals_, not regular, law abiding citizens. And they were an _infinitesimal_ minority of the people who were trapped in New Orleans. Unfortunately, our media concentrated on that aspect of this monumental tragedy rather than other, less sensational stories like neighbors helping neighbors... and complete strangers as well, in an _any_ way they could. For a look at what's really happening, directly from where it's happening, I might suggest you check out this site:
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and I quote:
"There have been mistakes and trouble getting help both to us and to New Orleans. But the scale of the disaster is not something that is easy to appreciate until you see it. It is frankly amazing that so much help is already on the ground and everyone here knows that. We all are beginning to stand back up after Katrina's blow and we will move forward. It is also clear that people are amazingly resilient. Acts of kindness and generosity are everywhere and not just here but from folks far away, who have sent supplies and help in time and labor. It is America and the American Way at its finest and most noble....More later."
To suggest that the _criminals_ (who simple did what criminals always do) are somehow representative of the "core" of American society in this tragic situation is both ignorant and xenophobic.
that
I don't believe you are truly familiar with just how we Americans are _really_ dealing with this disaster... in fact, I _know_ you're not.
name
aid
Again, you don't seem to understand what's really happening. You don't hear about all the doctors, firemen, EMT's, ect. who are volunteering from all over our country and going down there to help. You don't hear about the displaced families being taken in by complete strangers in states thousands of miles away. You don't hear about neighbors banding together to help each other survive in the most primitive conditions imaginable.
But feel free to go ahead and pass judgment on an entire country based on the actions of less that 500 of it's residents. After all, you have the freedom to be as ignorant as you want to be.
You might want to keep in mind that we are a very large country as well (the area affected is larger than Great Britain) so by sheer size and population, we're going to have more hard core criminals who are going to do what they _always_ do... commit crimes. By the same token, our media did what they _always_ do, exploit the sensational, lurid story for ratings. That concept was pioneered here in the U.S by an Aussie bloke I believe... Rupert Murdoch, owner of Fox network.
We didn't hush it up, the very worst of our society was shown on newsclip after newsclip for all the world to see. And as difficult as this may be for you to believe, we don't all think the U.S is the paragon of democratic virtue. We were a deeply divided nation before this happened and under our current government, we'll remain that way. But even a divided as we are now, the _vast_ majority of us are pulling together to help in ways you could obviously never understand.
the
As do we. Again, you're free to be as ignorant as you want to be.
like
Welcome to the real world. Guess what, we're not perfect. Neither are New Zealanders, the French, the Chinese or any other nationality for that matter.
extinguish
On Usenet, I always try to find some point to agree on, even with those who I disagree with... or find disagreeable. Your above quote is a good place to end my attempt to cure your ignorance.
Somehow, I doubt I'll succeed.
Reply to
Chuck U. Farley

No comment on all of the preceding, but I would hope that in the future the city will be rebuilt on HIGHER ground that won't be so easily flooded. A bit obvious perhaps, but I wanted to get that in.
Dan-O
Reply to
Dan The Man

In article , nospam@thisaddress.4me says...
One of the problems with the situation in New Orleans is that the parish sheriff had no plans for the evacuation of the detainees in the jails, so they were set free - upon a populace soon to be devastated by a flood, that "crept in" after the hurrican had passed. This became a very visible element in the area. The Oakwood Shopping Center, across the Greater NO Bridge was looted and burned, including the police sub-station within. This lead to Jefferson Parish shutting off access by ALL to their side of the river. It hasn't played well (the closure of the bridge(s)), and there has been little talk anywhere, of what went on, and who the most likely suspects were.
Unfortunately, the case in NO was a bit different. Those who perpertrated the criminal acts were barely members of ANY society. The total lack of preparedness was mostly responsible. Many of these "citizens" fled to Baton Rouge and to Houston, and the areas of both cities experienced unprescedented crime waves near the shelters. The main reason for the lock-down at the Astro -Dome was the number of "evacuees" who were preying on the local citizens, not some SNAFU in debit cards.
Sources for my statements - Sheriff Harry Lee, Jefferson Parish, LA, USA
Hunt
Reply to
Hunt

st. helier:
You misconstrued the entire post. I do not condone that type of behavior anywhere, and my point was that a few people with no moral values do not make up the "core" or anything in this country.
I'm not trying to "hush" anything. No one in this country is condoning what has happened, and we are just as outraged as everyone else at the actions of those few individuals. The problem here is the people (like yourself) that believe that this type of behavior is somehow indicative "Far too often those that know too little speak too often."
You are, of course, free to say whatever you like. However, I am also free to point out foolish comments when I see them, and stating that the actions of those few ignorant people are examples of the "core" of the American society is truly one of the most foolish remarks I've read on the Internet in a very long time.
Nuff said. Back to wine.
Reply to
Mike

WHOOOOOAA ....
Do i need to change my nic??? I don't mind - or even acknowledge - a bit of harmless flaming. But i am not this Mike.
If y'all are going to travel below the usual pedestrian nonsense of what appellation best complements smoked monkey brains, I pass. As a New Orleans native and a Houston resident, I have too many close relationships to joke about real issues.
I haven't even read this sequence of posts and probably won't. I just saw a new message posted by "Mike". But 'did want to make sure that a couple of my buddies that visit here realize that there are 2 "Mikes".
"Far too often those that know too little speak
Reply to
Mike

Try 3.
Please change your nics so as to prevent confusion.
--
Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
Reply to
Mike Tommasi

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