Wine.com conducts sting operation

Hey, Emily! Yep, that's been discussed in detail on the eBob web forum (and Wine Spec's too). I hope that it's not caused you any grief. BTW, are you now moved to Marin? Do you have a bricks and mortar operation or are you strictly a .com?

Happy New Year! Mark Lipton

I'd boycott them, except I haven't bought anything from them in 7-8 years

Mark Squires at eBob shut down the thread. It was becoming a bit of a flame-fest, so I can't say that I blame him. Shame, though, as word of the actions of Wine.com should really get spread around.

As we ship 100% legally (much to our daily financial detriment, let me just say), Wine.com's sting operation didn't net us. We did get more than a few recent calls from customers in Washington trying to talk us into shipping them some wines.....

By law we can only retail via the internet, so no brick-n-mortar winemongers.

On the Vinography thread we wrote an open letter to Wine.com, and as they have also posted there as well, I dearly hope they read it. I'll paste here our closing, as it has drawn more than a few smiles (as well as some good proceeds for the fine work that the Specialty Wine Retailers Association does):

"So apparently you were the Washington customer that we recently had to refuse to sell wine to. We do want to help you get the wine you requested, and here is a way around the law that is perfectly legal. Instead of shipping your wines to yourself in Washington, send it to your aunt in California or any of the other 26 states we can legally ship to. Then have your dear auntie bring those bottles along the next time she visits you.

In fact, we have put together a special flight of wines for you. It's called the "Sting Op 007"

Cheers from Stephan and Emily at Winemonger.com"

Happy New Year and Cheers to all of you as well! e.

p.s.- we are settled here in Marin. And not to offend anybody down in Los Angeles, but it is just so much better up here.

On Jan 9, 2:01 pm, "e.winemonger" wrote:

link:

I live in the central US in a state with the typical 3-tier system for alcohol. Quite a few spirits and wines are not available here. Quite a few people here, I have been told, have ordered wine from California for over 15 years, mostly by phone in the old days. Some stores would ship - some would not. I do not know of any wineries that shipped here directly in the old days. Also certain stores and auction houses in the eastern part of the country have long shipped to here. The main thing that could go wrong is that something happens to the shipment and you could not collect for the loss, because the air delivery company will claim that it can not ship alcohol into the state. Most companies that now direct ship to other states demand payment by credit card to avoid teens from buying using money orders and such. Most claim they transfer title to the alcohol in their state before shipment, and that they may engage a common carrier for the buyer of the wine. This likely helps keep their operation legal in their state. In general another state could not, or would not waste the time, to try to take them to court unless they are a chain with operations in the complaining state. There seem to be fewer stores that will sell spirits out of state than those that sell mainly wine. About the only reason I see for ordering from out of state is that something is not easily available in a location. Air shipping charges have increased so much over the years, that one often saves no money, or even pays more by ordering from out of state.

It now is possible to order 1 -3 bottles from out of the country including parts of Europe. A firm in London that sells mainly spirits does this sort of thing, and apparently it usually works. However very few would use such a service often. The minimum air express and handling charge for 1-3 bottles is about 25 Pounds or now nearly $US

1. Thus one would use such a service only for a very expensive bottle that is not easily available in the US, and you are determined to have some, regardless of a very high shipping cost. The company claims they will make good for a shipment that does not arrive or is damaged for any reason if you present proof which might be a loss notice from a shipping company or a photo if a damaged bottle. Also there a few stores in island countries in the Caribbean that claim that they will ship you alcohol in the US. They seem to handle mainly high end rum and tropical liqueurs. However one can ship Old Tom Gin, that some writers in the US have claimed is no longer made. It is made by a certain rum company but not exported to the US. Old Tom is a slightly sweetened gin that is called for in Tom Collins and many other drinks in very old cocktail books. Various dry gins have all but replaced it.

This illustrates part of the amazing thing about all of this. As an importer and retailer, I can tell you that it is just as difficult to import wines into the US as it is for us to ship them across a state line. And in most cases, EASIER.

So what do we do? Throw in the towel?

It's time to take that stand to "free the grapes", as they say. This whole thing has got to be stopped- and there's some momentum now to get this ball rolling. Inadvertently, Wine.com, through their despicable actions, has raised the awareness of this issue back up. They want a "fair playing field" (their quote)? Let's give it to them. Let's see them compete against the K&L's, the Woodland Hills Wine Co.'s, the Wine Exchanges of this online world, and let's just see how they fair.

Check out the discussion at Vinography.com. Check out the work of Tom Wark both at his own blog, Fermentations

I was a fan of wine.com when they opened a warehouse here in Berkeley recently, but after their mismanagement of my desire to will-call I don't think I can patronize them any more.

I wanted to order a wine online and pick it up in the store. A sales associate in the store said this could be done. No option online, so I call up customer support. Operator says I need to place the order online then call back and they'll change it to will call. I place the order, then call back and get hung up on. Call back again then get told by a little snot that they are closed. I was calling about 6 PM PST when their website says their customer support is open until 8 PM and I tell him this so he says he needs to speak with his manager. Comes back saying they don't do will-calls. I ask to speak with the manager and explain how I have been told by two other people that they do do will calls, then the manager goes on about how my order is placed on hold and has to be submitted to corporate HQ for resolution. Has no estimate as to how long that was going to take. My plan was to pick up the wine in the next day or two in time for New Years'. Called back and cancelled the order and bought the wine from Wine House in LA later. Absolutely lousy customer service.

-Thomas

As a wine disributor in Ohio I have mixed feelings about the internet wine sales issue. I think it's a good thing overall especially to find hard to get or large format bottles. I like being able to buy from the winery especially when the winery doesn't distribute in my State. I don't like wineries who use distributors as marketing agents to off load wine in weak years then not supply them in good years opting to sell only to restaurants to drive sales to their own websites. Even in Ohio where wine prices are considered high, I find that after shipping costs, wines cost less through a retailer here than via online. I do not use Wine.com but I do use a number of other online wine sites.

Bill Vanguard Wines LLC visit

Typically, I cannot imagine buying online, with paying shipping is going to be a savings.

So, about the only time I do so is to obtain wine that is not here and to keep the local distributors and retailers honest. (which is a hard job)

I think most of the retailers in my area are pretty good. The distributors, not so honest.

Example: J.L. Chave has that wine Offerus...and last year at Wine Library I was buying it for some $19.00 all day long...but locally the distributor was selling it so that at retail it was $32.99. So, I told the retailer locally I prefer to support him, but for this wine, that was to much...his price book from distributor was $22.00 a bottle.

The Chave Mon Cour was similar as the wine library retail was below the cost to my local retailer...and that included shipping.

I th>

As a wine disributor in Ohio I have mixed feelings about the internet wine sales issue. I think it's a good thing overall especially to find hard to get or large format bottles. I like being able to buy from the winery especially when the winery doesn't distribute in my State. I don't like wineries who use distributors as marketing agents to off load wine in weak years then not supply them in good years opting to sell only to restaurants to drive sales to their own websites. Even in Ohio where wine prices are considered high, I find that after shipping costs, wines cost less through a retailer here than via online. I do not use Wine.com but I do use a number of other online wine sites.

Bill Vanguard Wines LLC visit

Distributors in Ohio are mandated by State pricing controls that are very stringent from a minimum standpoint so wine cannot be sold under a floor rate set by the State based on the cost from the winery or importer. There are times when distributors must move popular wine at higher prices to cover losses created by winery and importer issues. For instance, often a winery will force a distributor to buy large quantities of hard to sell wine in order to get wine that is attractive to retail customers in the market. It's not uncommon to raise the price on the high demand wine to cover the loss on the crap wine that had to be purchased in order to be eligible to buy the stuff that consumers want. The crap wine eats up capital and kills inventory turns but is cash flow for the winery or importer so they keep cramming it down the distributors throat. In the case of the Offerus is would be interesting to find out what the distributor had to pay the importer for the wine since Chave is imported by a number of importers nationally.

Bi!! wrote on Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:19:30 -0800 (PST):

B> On Jan 10, 12:22�pm, "Richard Neidich" wrote: ??>> Typically, I cannot imagine buying online, with paying ??>> shipping is going to be a savings. ??>>

One of the reasons I might buy on line would be to avoid those relics of prohibition the County Liquor stores and warehouse in Montgomery County, MD. It is interesting that the County is bewailing its revenue shortcomings this year but lists a new County Warehouse as an urgent need. The solution there is obvious but I'll bet the County won't take it. The system curtails selection quite a bit but I'll admit that their prices are not bad.

James Silverton Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Interesting. I only knew of two importers on Chave. Kermit Lynch Wine Merchant and Langdon Shiverick, Cleveland, OH

I have no idea of the pricing from one to the other. However, I guess an importer can sell anyone...there is NO Geographic assignments?

link:

Distributors in Ohio are mandated by State pricing controls that are very stringent from a minimum standpoint so wine cannot be sold under a floor rate set by the State based on the cost from the winery or importer. There are times when distributors must move popular wine at higher prices to cover losses created by winery and importer issues. For instance, often a winery will force a distributor to buy large quantities of hard to sell wine in order to get wine that is attractive to retail customers in the market. It's not uncommon to raise the price on the high demand wine to cover the loss on the crap wine that had to be purchased in order to be eligible to buy the stuff that consumers want. The crap wine eats up capital and kills inventory turns but is cash flow for the winery or importer so they keep cramming it down the distributors throat. In the case of the Offerus is would be interesting to find out what the distributor had to pay the importer for the wine since Chave is imported by a number of importers nationally.

I believe that there are geographic limits.