wines, no need to breath.

Actually, she seems to be interchangably using terms of breathing/decanting, claiming that any exposure to air does harm. Which, as Ian says, is rubbish IMHO. I'll say that at the Bordeaux offlines where I regularly participate, it is considered the norm to double-decant (pour into a decanter, let a little air expose, then return to bottle -if older wines rinsing sediment from bottle) in advance. On occasion someone doesn't have opportunity to do so, and almost invariably wine doesn't show well against its peers. Even the double-decanted bottles often have wines show further improvement in the glass, as they get more air.

As to breathing in the bottle, it's true that little is done by just opening bottle. However, my norm at home if a bottle needs a little air but not neccessarily decanting -and if I don't feel like washing the decanter :) - is to open, pour out one glass, occasionally smelling and taking small sips to watch evolution. Meanwhile exposed surface area is much larger.

And while we might normally talk of reds and breathing, few wines seem to appreciate some air as much as youthful good white Burgundies! Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

To clarify, I meant the exposed area in the bottle is larger once the wine is down to low shoulder. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Salut/Hi Neil R.,

le/on Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:22:47 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Oops, sorry not to have been clearer.

Opening a bottle an hour, two hours or so ahead of drinking has no observable effect, IMO, and I'd not describe that as "letting a wine breathe". Breathing only has any meaning if it's done by decanting - I use the word (MT take note) in the English sense, of pouring a wine from bottle to decanter either in order to separate wine from deposit, or to kick start the oxidation process.

Sorry. Again I can't agree here. About 2 1/2 years ago I was lucky enough to go to a dinner hosted by M & Mme CapdeMourlin at Ch Balestard la Tonnelle, one of the St Emilion Grand crus Classés. At that dinner we had four different wines, including a B-l-T 1945. That wine was served decanted (or carafed) and my first reaction was that the wine was over the top. After about 20 -30 mins, it really opened out and shone, and the general consensus of those of us, who like properly mature wine, was that it had been decanted

Several years ago, a reader asked about when he should decant a bottle of Haut-Brion 45 (again). The general consensus here was that he should do so JUST before drinking. When I discovered the ullage level of the wine, I disagreed and advised decanting at least 1/2 hour, perhaps as long as 2 hours beforehand, advising further that he ask the Chateau. They replied that 2 hours was about right, if I remember correctly, though it might have been only an hour. Now if we were talking about Tokaji Aszu, then 1945 wouldn't class as a very old wine, but I think that you _would_ describe a St Emilion as very old at nearly 50.

BLT? Your were drinking good wine with bacon,lettuce and tomato sannies?? Forsooth!

My preference is to err on the side of caution and open the wine a very conservative amount of time ahead of projected drinking time. You can always wait while it opens in the glass, but if you miss it by allowing it to die alone, you commit a sin against the wine!

Yes, I agree with this where old claret is concerned. Contrary to Mike's assertion, I have seen wine die in the glass after a while, or so it seemed anyway. Certainly no general rule, but as Bill says, error on the side of caution is not such a bad idea with a rare bottle.

I agree generally that the idea that aeration does not improve a certain set of wines is rubbish. It can also give you an idea (rough) of how a young wine will age, or whether it's built to age at all.

Keeping in mind that as in all matters of the senses, tasting is subjective, and I'm certainly willing to accord Ms. what's-her-name her opinion. But to stateit as a general rule in a populist debunking operation is absurd.

-E

Salut/Hi Bill Spohn,

le/on 27 Jan 2004 19:40:03 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

I trust this is a gentle leg pull!

In general, yes, but only if _you're_ in charge of the timing and the flow of the meal and the food and your guests are (yes, I know, you only invite suitably educated guests for wines that good) prepared to be flexible in timing. My problem is that I want both food AND wine to be perfect at the same time, and with a roast, for example, you can't expect it to wait for an hour while the '66 Montrose finally wakes up!

It's a genuine problem, Bill, I know. I agree that it would be a crime to be drinking your white burgundy with a fish course, while the red wine quietly dies in the decanter.

Bien sur, mon ami!

very>>conservative amount of time ahead of projected drinking time. You can always>>wait while it opens in the glass, but if you miss it by allowing it to die>>alone, you commit a sin against the wine!

the meal and the food and your guests are (yes, I know, you only invite>suitably educated guests for wines that good) prepared to be flexible in>timing. My problem is that I want both food AND wine to be perfect at the>same time, and with a roast, for example, you can't expect it to wait for an>hour while the '66 Montrose finally wakes up!

Yep - comes down to priorities some times - I've even shifted a wine that refused to open up from main course to later, and had a pause when one opened too soon, and we just enjoyed that wine with no food (or at least my guests did

- I was mostly still cooking the main course).

Sometimes feel like a juggler - and wish I'd opted for younger wines where this sort of thing isn't much of an issue - except for the ones you have to open a day ahead....

Ian

You don't believe that pouring wine out of a bottle over the course of a couple of hours causes the wine to oxidize (develop)?

I beg to differ on this one. As Dale points out, a partially emptied bottle has a large surface area exposed to oxygenated air (20%). Repeated pouring introduces more of this wine to air over the course of the evening. My experience is that latter glasses served out of an undecanted bottle seem more developed, especially if considerable time elapses. This is certainly the case when I served the 88 Duhart Milon last week.

Tom Schellberg

Salut/Hi Xyzsch,

le/on 05 Feb 2004 00:45:19 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

When I was replying to this post, it was in the context (in my mind) of a) taking the cork out and leaving the wine "as is". or b) decanting/carafing

As I said to Dale in an earlier thread Message-ID:

I accept that pouring a glass or more out of a bottle WILL allow aeration, and that as a compromise solution in the absence of decanting it's acceptable.

Indeed. However, I do feel that this does not give as good results as decanting, where ALL the wine gets exposed once and then can develop. It certainly countas as letting the wine breathe.

Open a bottle a day for 3 days or so. Drink a glass or two when first opened to allow room for air. Vaccuvan the 3. Open a fourth, and blind taste all.

Big Cab or Shiraz or mix fresh from OZ does best after a couple days under vaccuvan to my mind.

Salut/Hi gerald,

le/on Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:59:27 -0500, tu disais/you said:-

Thank you for your suggestion. But

a) I know what the effects of air on wine are. b) I've no intention of opening 4 bottles to satisfy someone _else's_ curiosity. c) I don't have access to the sort of wine you describe. d) I have no problems over decanting a bottle of wine.

Thanks for clarifying Ian.

Tom Schellberg