cloudy pinot gris

Shouldn't the bentonite and isinglass be added at different times? One is + and the other is -. If you add them at the same time they would counteract each other.

RD wrote:

I'm assuming you mean you added them at the same time basically? Did you wait between each?

RD wrote:

What I meant was they were added and mixed about 15 minutes apart. This is the first time I've attempted to do this without separate rackings, but I've read discussions on fining regimens here from experienced winemakers in this group who do this routinely.

RD

I don't see how that is possible. Logically your putting a + and a - fining agent together. Their going to attract one another instead of what their supposed to attract. Though I don't have practical experience. I've been reading Jon Iverson's book and I made a Pinot from a kit. The Bentonite went it at fermentation and then the isinglass went in at first racking.

I just racked it again today and it is quite clear.

RD wrote:

Remember that Bentonite and Isinglass are not the only particles in the mix. They were not added together then added to the wine. They were prepared separately then added to the wine sequentially. Wine has quite a bit more negatively- and positively-charged molecules that would likely interfere with what you suggest. Secondly, you're assuming that the complexes formed between Bentonite and positively charged particles would readily dissociated in favor of a complex with the Isinglass. I'm not sure this is true. As I say, the wine cleared ok at cellar temp. It was only after placing it in the frig to cold stabilize that the cloudiness reappeared.

RD,

Sounds to me like you precipitated out a cloud of microscopic tartrate crystals by the rapid chilling. If so, it should eventually settle by itself, or you could bring the wine back up to a warm room temp to redissolve the cloud. A more gradual cooling with a pinch of cream of tartar for seed crystals might promote the formation of larger, heavier particles which would settle better.

This was my initial thought as well. I forgot to mention that it has been in the frig for nearly 3 weeks now and is still cloudy.

RD

How cold is your fridge? I had the same thing happen last year with 2 whites and found out only later that my fridge was set on medium when I had cold stabilized. Apparently, even a month in the fridge at that setting was not enough, even with seeding with cream of tartar. I had to bump the setting to high and restabilize to get rid of the haze.

Pp

It's set at the coldest setting - about 40F. This setting has been sufficient to chill proof several batches of riesling in the past.

RD

That might not be cold enough, or the wine might need more time in the fridge at that temperature. My max setting was at around 34F.

Past experience can be like they say for investments - no guarantee of future results. I also didn't have any issues with cold stabilization in a fridge until last year. The grapes/juice are different every year...

Pp

Agreed. I have time to wait it out a bit and see how it goes.

Thanks, RD