falling cap

I have just a few red wines under my belt (in more ways than one) and I have a question on pressing. I have heard that it is best to press when 'the cap falls'. What does this look like? I just pressed a cabernet where the cap was lethargic and did not rise very much during the day. But it was still up. Is is supposed to actually fall into the wine so you have no cap? At what point is there danger? When my last cabernet was 'lethargic', I was really nervous. I don't think I could have waited any longer. What does it look like and how do I protect the wine when it is necessary.

Just a beginner wanting to make magnificant wine, I know I can now, but haven't yet.

Dan

Reply to
Dan Emerson
Loading thread data ...

Dan, I think pressing "when the cap falls" is a poor criteria. Of course, the cap usually falls soon after the sugar is gone, but it is sometimes difficult to estimate the state of the cap. Pressing "when the sugar is nearly gone" seems like a better method because sugar can be easily estimated with a hydrometer. lum

Reply to
Lum

When the cap falls, the surface of the fermenter will be clear juice. I have rarely observed this phenomenon, and concur with Lum that it's risky to wait for that point. Unless you're conducting extended maceration (and know what you're doing), you should press at or near dryness.

Tom S

Reply to
Tom S

Tom has a good point. In order for the cap to "fall", the cap must be fairly free of trapped CO2 bubbles. I practice extended maceration and use cap fall as the point where I protect the headspace with Argon (you could use N as well). As Tom pointed out, you may not observe cap fall as it depends on your cap managment practice. I practice rack and return with a good stirring in of the cap twice a day through the duration of primary fermentation. This allows me to see the point of cap fall easily since I purge the cap of trapped gas regularly. If you decide to try extended maceration, make sure you protect your wine with Argon or Nitrogen in a covered container. Also, aeration during primary fermentation is critical if you are going to use extended maceration since H2S problems can become mercaptan problems during EM.

Cheers and Good Luck!! Aaron

Reply to
Aaron Puhala

The last few years I have been trying to extend my maceration and waiting until the cap truly falls. I have been letting it go for 20+ days. I have been getting glorious color extraction and have been happy with the wines when young (18 mo's) but they have not been keeping well beyond 2-3 years. I wonder if this is because I left them too long.

I have not been using inert gas but I have been laying a layer of sarane wrap over the surface to keep air contact to a minimum when the cap starts dropping. Like I say, no sign of oxidation when it becomes drinkable but it has not been keeping well.

Just a comment. Any opinions would be welcome.

Ray

Reply to
Ray

When you say they haven't been keeping well, what do you mean?

Reply to
Aaron Puhala

I have one theory. One of the reasons extended maceration is used is to soften a wine. The increased time on the skins actually helps the tannins polymerize into longer chains which settle out more quickly.

If it is over-done, you could be left with little or no tannins. This is fine for an early drinking wine, but tannin can help a wine age gracefully.

Andy

Reply to
JEP

Could be the structure of the wine was never appropriate for long term aging. If the pH was on the high side and/or you used minimal SO2 that could account for the short aging potential.

Tom S

Reply to
Tom S

If you are punching down your wine the skins should be under the level of the juice after each punch down. When no more CO2 is being released the cap won't so much as 'fall' as it will stop rising out of the must. This will coincide with hydrometer showing no more sugar to ferment. I've been making Cabernet and Merlot and I usually press at about 2 weeks with plenty of tannins, but not too much.

Brian

Reply to
Brian Cechony

Hi Andy,

I've never heard of too long a maceration resulting in no tannins? Have you experienced this yourself or can you give me a reference? I believe some very fine CA cabernets and blend producers utilize upwards of 35-40 days of extended maceration with plenty of tannins remaining in the wine.

CHEERS!

Aaron

Reply to
Aaron Puhala

Ray,

What quality of fruit are you using? What's your pH typically? I'm sure you know that without using fruit that can handle extended maceration (i.e. high quantity of ripe tannins, fruit character, etc) there's no point in EM. Have you noticed the wines' tannin profiles softening considerably during EM? Both the qualitative and quantitative qualities of phenols play a huge role in the success of EM.

Ben

Reply to
Ben Rotter

Yes, but they are starting with grapes that contain higher tannin levels than (at least I) get in my grapes shipped from California.

Who are the wineries doing the extended maceration that long? The wineries I know that use (or used) extended maceration tend to be on the early drinking side rather than the long lasters. Of course, in general, new world producers have that reputation anyway.

Extended maceration promotes polymerization of the tannins resulting in a softer wine. UC Davis literature includes this comment concerning extended maceration :

"The surface of the skin cells may additionally provide a nucleating center for the precipitation or polymerization of compounds,decreasing their concentration in the wine."

I have also experienced this myself when doing extended maceration. The tannin level may increase over the short term, but then the tannins soften and round out. If you start with a wine that has little tannin to begin with and employ extended maceration, this could cause a further reduction of the already low tannin level.

There is also some indication (in other references)that extended maceration can reduce the acid content of the must due to an increase in the potassium extracted from the skins causing more acid to form bitartrate which precipitates out.

BTW, UC Davis appears to believe that extended maceration does nothing to increase the extraction from the skins:

"Several studies have shown that both extended maceration and cold soak do not really impact the level of skin components in the wine, as the principle factor enhancing extraction is high temperature."

Andy

Reply to
JEP
Reply to
Paul E. Lehmann

I agree! However, I think that most home winemakers simply don't go into that kind of scientific detail. Even to conduct simple experiments is a massive undertaking when considering the proper scientific method (controls, reproducibility, correct analysis, etc).

If you really want to find the best methods then things get complicated because it depends on thorough understanding of the processes involved, the wine style (as you said), and the type and quality of fruit. Within these dependants is a minefield of issues. Pumping over with aeration and cap stirring may be successful for your fruit, but to really look at best methods in general requires looking at the fruit and wine style composition that that method was successful for.

Still, there are some methods which seem to work more universally (e.g. the better integration from oak bean addition during fermentation rather than after which you mentioned). In addition to that, there are probably many ways to get to a similar place in winemaking. So I still agree. We can all do our small bit to further the general knowledge of best practises etc, and maybe as a collective whole the difference this makes will be considerable.

Ultimately though, a "core set of best practices" is an ideal which may never be reached. (And anyway, wouldn't these be more likely to be about practises where there is less variation in methods between winemakers? Maceration regimes are a perfect example of something where there *is* a lot of variance.) I think it's one of the great things about winemaking that there are so many variables and therefore so much there's so much variety.

Ben

Reply to
Ben Rotter

When 1 to 2 years old they tend to be very fruity and nicely ballanced. After 2 years they start developing an off taste. I cannot specify what type of taste it is, just that it is not especially pleasant. It gets worse with time. I am not sure if it is something I have done, an infection that only shows up after 2 years, or what.

Ray

Reply to
Ray

Replying to several posts above:

Ben, I have used Lodi Merlot, Shiraz, and Cab Sauv. and Merlot, Cab. Franc, and Cab Sauv. from they east coast in different years. The wine does soften through maceration and I prefer softer reds. Beyond these comments, I am not sure.

Brian: I punch down until the cap stops rising then I just check it every day not wanting to expose it too much. I may be getting to much air to it but oxidation has not been a problem up to an age of 2 years.

Tom S.: Some of these wines have been high pH, high TA wines. For others the pH was about right. I only started checking SO2 levels recently and that may be a problem. But they do not seem to be oxidized.

Ray

Reply to
Ray

Hi Ben,

Well said.

Andy

Reply to
JEP

DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.