Fruit Maturity Assessment article

Hi Ben

This is an excellent article. Thanks for sharing! It is interesting in figure 1. the relation of ph and acidity. Does the graph intend to show that acidity and ph don't change substantially after ripeness is achieved? This would indicate that leaving the fruit to hang longer would not lower the acid that much.

Joe

Ben - This is a great article and you web site is first rate.

You mention that stems contain a high proportion of phenolic compounds...astringent, polymerized tannins.

I grow some French American hybrid red grapes. I've always gone out of my way to remove stems before fermentation. These grapes (Baco, Leon Millot) lack the astringency that I associate with red wines and I'm wondering if including stems might add this missing component.

Are there any F-A grape growers/winemakers out there that do include stems during fermantation? If so what are the results?

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

Joe & Bill,

Thank you both for your k> Does the graph intend to show that acidity and ph don't change substantially >

after ripeness is achieved? This would indicate that leaving the fruit to

No, that was not intended. Extended "hang time" usually results in berry dehydration (if left long enough) which causes a decrease in berry weight and a corresponding increase in sugar. Acid generally continues to drop over this period, with a corresponding rise in pH. This phenomenon is not shown on Figure 1 as the graph ends before that point.

In general, acidity consistently decreases over time in fruits. Of course this depends on the fruit, variety, climate, etc. Bear in mind that this is a *general* and ideal model where some factors remain anecdotal (e.g. a ripe flavour decrease over a "full ripeness" period

- this is highly dependant and even debatable) to get the idea of general trends across. It will not apply to every fruit or locati> I grow some French American hybrid red grapes. I've always gone out of my

I don't grow/make F-A grapes/wines but I'd say give it a go. It is sometimes done with other varieties (e.g. Pinot Noir) for the exact reason you mention, so I don't see why it shouldn't also be done with F-A grapes.

Ben

Bill,

I grow red F-A hybrids: Chambourcin, Chelois, and now NY 73 (Baco & DeChaunac pulled to make room for NY73). My plan has always been to add ripe stems to boost the tannins, but the problem is I seldom have had stems ripe enough. My vines get less than ideal sun, and I think that's a big part of the problem. Because I've had a few problems with vegetal tastes, which I ascribed to less than ripe stems, I generally do a longish maceration and add grape tannin at a rate of 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per

If you do add/leave some stems in your wine, just be careful to avoid green ones. Brown, skinny, lignified ones can work. I don't think they're the same as the tannins in the berries, but they help.

I planted the NY73 in part because it has better tannins

A wacky idea I've been wanting to try is to save some dry Oak leaves and add them to a test batch the next fall.

HTH, Mike MTM

William Frazier wrote:

Why try to make a "Big Red" style wine out of grapes that do not lend themselves to such. Why not try short fermentation on the skins and not use any oak or stems. If you do not like the results, why not experiment and add some elderberries for tannin and color.

Paul,

I hear you. I'm slowly coming around to that conclusion myself. People who have tasted my house red have likened it to Beaujolais, not Cabernet, so I should probably work toward that style. I'm still going to experiment, though.

Thanks for the input. Mike MTM