Newbie things that make you go hmmmmmm.....?

Fermentation, and winemaking in general, does not follow a strict timetable regardless of the instructions they include in the kits. One batch will ferment out in 4 days and another will take 4 weeks. It does not always seem to make since. But the important thing is that it is progressing. If you have it in a primary bucket, I would go ahead and rack to secondary and put a lock on it. Just be sure to leave lots of head space incase it takes off real strong. At this stage, head space it no problem.

If it is already in a primary under a lock, I would let it go on down to

1.010 or 1.020 and then rack it.

It is obvious that you are using a hydrometer. The hydrometer is your friend. Trust it more than the instructions.

Ray

As long as you continue to see fermentation activity, I wouldn't worry about how long it takes, especially if you are fermenting at lower than "room" temperature. I would continue what you are doing--whites like Riesling are generally better and fruitier if fermented at lower temps anyway.

And yes, the opacity if normal. It will clear with time. Don't worry about it unless it starts to turn brown (which it won't if you keep the carboy airlocked). If you have an airlock on your carboy, it isn't critical that you rack at 1.010. If you are fermenting in a bucket, it is important to protect the wine from oxygen once fermentation slows down.

Don't get too excited tasting it all the time. The more you leave it under airlock, the less oxidation will occur. Have fun...you will be fine.

I checked it again tonight, 9 days after pitching, and it's down to around 12-14 so I'll rack when I have time this week and follow the instructions less the sorbate.

Thanks,

Kevin

I'm just trying to comprehend the "tastes pretty darn ok" remark. I admit I can eliminate a 28 day kit maybe 2 to 3 months after it's start, but Kevin, you've got guts to be consuming at this stage! LOL!

Good luck to you though, you sound like you're going in the right direction!

Thanks, as a homebrewer I've tried my beer at all stages. I tried to get my wife to sample the wine but she said she'd "drink no wine before it's time" :) Here's what I've done so far: I fermented in a

6.5 gal carboy. I left it two weeks. I racked today into a plastic pail. Gravity is about .996 or so. I plan to leave it in the pail for 7 days then rack into a 5 gal carboy. I will add the SO2 into the carboy and rack onto it, not using the sorbate. I will add the isinglass at that time too. I will let it age then for 3 months or so then bottle. Does anyone see any faults in this???????????

I'm a wine newbie so I'm trying not to deviate from the directions but the directions seem to call for one racking then bottling and I'm going for two rackings and bulk aging in the 5 gal carboy before bottling. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I'M SCREWING UP!!!!

You fermented in a carboy but now that it is done you've put it into an open pail? I would have thought the reverse would have been the technique or ferment it and leave it in the carboy, racking out into the pail and back into the carboy to get it off the lees.

In any case, get it out of the pail fast and under an airlock. Oxidation is the bane of all wine. If there is alot of dissolved CO2 then you should be able to give the carboy a few swirls to release the CO2 and displace the oxygen in the air space. If not, you need to top up or distribute the wine into smaller containers with little air space.

Once the wine is under an airlock and out of possible touch with oxygen, then you can sit back for a few weeks before stabilizing and ensuring it is dry and then either bulk aging or degassing and bottling.

Don

Don: Thanks for the reply. It is in a pail but it is also under an airlock. I fermented first in a carboy as it was my first wine I wanted to see it fermenting. It fermented down to about .996 in 2 weeks and I wanted to get it off the lees at this time. As the instr. said to rack it and not worry about topping up I thought I could put it in a bucket (7.5) gal w/o worrying, for a week then I'd go into my

5 gal carboy with SO2, no sorbate, for several months. Is this a plan or am I missing something? Thanks again.

Kevin, At all times except at the very beginning of fermentation you need to think about what is protecting your wine from oxidation. If the wine is in a carboy, fully fermented and you open it up then you are introducing oxygen. If it's not topped up and you have a 6" air space then you've introduced that much more oxygen compared to a 1/2" air space.

You've put the wine into a bucket with an airlock but there's probably a 4" or more air space across the total diameter of the bucket. Since the wine is not producing CO2 in any great quantity (or at all) nothing is displacing that oxygen. Get it into a topped up carboy.

If it had gone into the bucket under an airlock while still fermenting it would fairly quickly displace the oxygen with CO2 from the fermentation. However the speed of the fermentation would decide how much oxygen exposure the wine would get. However I don't think of a bucket with a lid as being very air tight, I could be wrong though.

Don

Don is right. Get it back into the carboy under an airlock. The bucket is not good at this stage. For one thing, they are notorious for not sealing well such that the airlock is really doing nothing. But the real killer is that there is just too much head space no mater how much you fill it. A carboy may have 1 inch of head space but since the neck is small, that is very little air. If you have only 1/4 in of head space in your bucket there will be many times more air in it. During primary, air is beneficial to must. But as the must turns to wine, air becomes damaging. At the stage you are at now, it will ruin the wine in short order.

Ray

Thanks for all your help. Here's what I've done. I racked into a 5 gal carboy, added the SO2 and the isinglass, put my racking cane into the carboy, attached the cane to my cordless drill and stirred all for about 2-3 min's and attached the airlock.

Now what? Is this where the bulk aging comes in? Do I rack again while it's aging? If so, when? Please give me a time frame from here to consumption. It's a Reislign from Brew King.

As a side note, I'm going to stick with kits so is it better to buy the most expensive kit possible? I like whites however, I might buy a red or two for storage.

Yes, now you bulk age. I find that the Riesling kits I have made do not need a long aging. I like it young and fruity.

Kit price: Personally I find the mid price kits are significantly better than the cheaper ones. The high price kits are sometimes worth the extra cost and sometimes not. But that is me.

Ray

It was fairly cloudy today when I racked but it's cleared up considerably, not crystal clear but translucent anyway. There's a noticeable layer of lees (trub for you beer guys) on the bottom of the carboy. How long should I let it sit on this? Temp tonight is 70-71 deg according to the strip therm on the carboy.

Providing you have it in the carboy and topped up or fermentation was still proceeding enough to displace the oxygen with CO2 you can leave it for two weeks or more. It can depend on the type of wine. Read this page:

After that if fermentation is complete and yoy have not added the potassium meta then you can do that when racking to a new carboy (or back into the pail and again back into the carboy). At that point you can consider bulk aging, which is to just keep it topped up, protected from serious sun light and sitting there for a few months.

Search on Google Groups for any of the above topics in rcw and you will have some good reading.

Don

Don: Thank you for your replys. Here's a synoposis of my activity to date:

Fermented in a 6.5 gal carboy for 2 weeks due to lower initial temps. Racked to 7 gal bucket for about 3-4 days, gravity about .996. Racked to 5 gal carboy, added SO2, isinglass, degassed. One day later (today), cleared up very nicely, layer of "dusty" yeast on bottom and sides near bottom.

Issues:

My dealer threw up big red flags about the omission of the sorbate How long to leave in carboy? He says 3-4 weeks then bottle.

Questions:

Can I leave on lees longer, say, 2-3 months w/o further messing? Should I rack after 3-4 weeks then bulk age up to 3 months? Should I follow my dealer's advice?

It's a Brew King Reisling.

Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin, I don't think you typically leave a Reisling on the lees so you probably want to rack it off them in a week or two.

You fermented dry so there's no need for the sorbate as long as there is no flavour or juice pack to add back in. Caveat though, some hydrometers are inaccurate. Mine is out by 0.004, if yours is out by 0.006 or more than your wine is not dry. There should be some papers with it to tell you the zero temperature. You could test it and consider that and the temperature at which you tested your wine to see if it really dry. It probably is so it's not really necessary.

I don't think you need the sorbate, perhaps others will chime in here with their opinions as well. It probably won't hurt though so if you decide to use it, don't sweat it.

Rack it off the lees in a week or two, if need be, back to the pail and then back to the carboy, top it up with water (if it's only a small amount) or a similar wine (prefered and a good excuse to buy a bottle) and then let it sit in the carboy for anywhere up to a year. Yes a year. Anything between 2 or 3 months and that time will be a good bulk aging. Protect it from light and temperature swings the same as you would the finished product.

If you go 6+ months you probably don't need to degass again. After 2 or 3 months you probably should.

Add 1/4 tsp of potassium meta at bottling time and your done.

One more note, if for some reason it does ferment a bit more in the bottle because you didn't use sorbate you will have a gassy wine. Not a great big deal, stir before serving. Go to Google, click on Groups and then Advanced Search. Enter rec.crafts.winemaking in the group and sorbate in the subject. You'll have alot of opinions. Try bulk aging as well. Don't believe the first one you read, read quite a few. Honestly, if you go in there you'll be amazed at how much information there is. I still am.

Good choice on the kit, my wife bought me an RJ Reisling and I wished she had bought me that one instead. There's something about a good Reisling that's really offbeat, it's like licking a rock :)

Don

I was thinking that the sorbate was unnecesary but he was pretty adamant. I didn't check the gravity when I racked to the carboy but I do know it was around .996 when I put it into the bucket from the primary. At that gravity, I'm not worried about renewed ferm.

I' bought a bottle of a French Reisling from Alsace (is that right?) and I'll use it to top. If I'm going to stick with wine another 5 gal carboy won't hurt. It's really clearing quite nicely. Thank you for your help.