Question on yield of grapes per vine

I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward to reading all the responses......

I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of

40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these 40 vines ??

Thanks

Mark

Reply to
Mark - N1MT
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After five or six years you MIGHT get 8 to 10 lbs per vine - or in other words somewhere around 300 pounds to 400 pounds. Others may give you other numbers. Some use a rule of thumb of a gallon of wine per vine which would be over 12 pounds per vine but I think this would be overly optimistic unless you plan to over crop.

Where are you planting - what state and area?

Have you already committed to 6 foot rows and 4 feet between vines? Have you considered a divided canopy system such as GDC, Scott Henry or Lyre?

You may be able to increase your yield by choosing one of these systems and having more room between rows.

Reply to
Paul E. Lehmann

Mark - I picked my C. Franc yesterday. This was the first year I let the vines have grapes. The load worked out to 11.2 pounds per vine. Brix was

19.5, pH 3.64 and TA 0.67. Next year I'll prune down to 8 or 9 pounds per vine and get the brix up a little.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

Reply to
William Frazier

Mark, it depends on your growing conditions but also which training/trellis technique you choose and how severely you prune. If conditions are favorable and you prune for high yield rather than quality, you might well get 10 pounds per vine or even more. On the other hand, there exist commercial vineyards where yield is intentionally limited to a couple of pounds per vine in order to get superior quality. As both vineyard manager and winemaker, that's a basic chioce you get to make.

- Mark W.

Reply to
Mark Willstatter

Bill;

How many years did you go before you let the vines yield grapes ?

Mark

Reply to
Mark - N1MT

Hi Paul;

I live in central Connecticut.

I haven't committed yet to the actual planting layout or the trellis system that I'll be using. Initially, my thought was to use a 2 wire system. One at 40" and the other at 6' and do my planting as I defined below. Could you tell me more about the divided canopy systems or point me to a web site you find as a good reference. I'm working with a 35' x 25' area for the vineyard. O'h, did I mentioned my wife's requirements..... It must look appealing to the eye.

Thanks, Mark

Reply to
Mark - N1MT

Mark One of the best resources I have found is a book titled "From Vines to Wines" by Jeff Cox. It is inexpensive and describes everything from recommended varieties by region, planning your vineyard, trellising systems design and pruning. It is one of the very best books I have seen (especially on pruning) It is only 235 pages long - including index - and is very easy to read and understand. You might even be able to pick up a used copy on Amazon.com. I understand completely your wife's "requirement". To me, there is no more beautiful site than a well maintained vineyard - with the possible exception of a beaufiful woman in a well maintained vineyard. Let me know if you have any more questions. You can also reach me at my home email. I live in Central Maryland.

Reply to
Paul E. Lehmann

I have the first edition, and also think it's great. I don't know about the latest edition, but the only thing missing is info on sorbate usage. Ken

Reply to
Ken Anderson

This is their third year Mark Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

Reply to
William Frazier

MArk,

Along with the other good answers here , here's my 2 cents. Since your keeping distances between vines to 4 feet I'd shoot for around 6.5 pounds per plant ( 1/2 the 8ft spacing). Also I would use the VSP in central Conn. Keep the yeild down and LOTS of sunshine to the shoots. The problem with divided canopies is the long trunk which could be a problem in cold growing areas. I think your going to have a TOUGH time with Cab Franc in Central Conn. , are you near the coast? If you are not, grow them on their own roots or you'll be replacing vines frequently.

Bob

Reply to
bob

I agree with your advice, but a Lyre trellising system would not have a long trunk nor would a Scott / Henry. I visited the Henry Estate Winery in Oregon and was impressed with the quality and quantity of his vineyard.

I am interested in your experience with self rooted vines. When is it an advantage to use self rooted as opposed to grafted? I am anxious to find out because it would save me the expense and hastle of ordering bundles of

25 for replacement vines just to plant a couple vines if I could just use some of my own cuttings. I live in Central Maryland and have sandy loam soil.
Reply to
Paul E. Lehmann

Paul,

It's hard to compare Oregon to the east. You live in Maryland and are replacing vines, so you can imagine the issues I face in NY. I have had great success with cuttings. Just plant a cutting in the ground with 1 bud showing with some rooting hormone directly in the vineyard. Water and watch it grow. It will actually do better than if you transplanted from a nursery if you start the cutting right in the vineyard. You need to take the cuttings AFTER the winter to insure you have a HARDY cutting. When I start my commercial vineyard I will grow all my vines on their own roots. They grow ALL the vines in Washington state that way. They say the deep freezes they get during the winter control the phyloxerra. It is believed sandy soil is more resistant to phyloxerra than clay. Also vineyards with lots of mulch and organic material also seem to do better. The other obvious advantage is that if the vines' trunk is damaged you just cut the vine back to the ground and you'll get healthy suckers growing up from below the soil line. THe other thing is that the root system will be OLD and therefore more established than if you kept replacing grafted vines. The older the vine the better the quality of grapes and with grafted vines growing in "marginal areas" you never seem to get to the point where you have vines that are 20 years old or more. I've seen enough damage, and not just in my vineyard , to know that it's the ONLY way I'll grow my vinifera vines in NY. Hybrids are a different story but I'm looking to get vines that THRIVE in my area not "survive". Even my chambourcin that is fairly hardy has a little aerial rooting which isn't a good sign that it's hardy enough for my environment. I live in a valley which is great once you get by the first frost because of the cool nights ,the color of the chambourcin is deep purple at crush time BUT during the winter ALL the cold air drains in and it can be a challange for some of the vinifera and a few of even the chambourcin. Like I said my growing season is kinda short because of what I previously said BUT I know what I have to do now and that is to get vines that like this climate so when I'm 75 years old they'll still be there producing "vintage" wine.

Bob

"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote in message news:...

Reply to
bob

Bob;

I'm gonna give the FRANC a try. I'm purchasing my vines from A&A Vineyards in NY. They offer 3 different FRANC's. Type SO4, 101-14 and

3309. I've decided to go with the 101-14 because its more winter hardy than the 3309 and much more hardy than the SO4. The vines are not on their own root but grafted. My thought was to mulch around the graft with straw during the winter months for protection. I may be second guessing myself in years to come about going with vinifera versus hybrid, being from Connecticut. I don't live on the coast, but about 20 miles inland along the Connecticut river valley. Its not as bad, tempwise, as living in the northwest hills of Connecticut but it certainly isn't (far, far from it) Napa Valley :)

Mark

Reply to
Mark - N1MT

Mark,

You won't be second guessing yourself about going with Cab Franc but you may be second guessing your self about grafted vs. non-grafted. I don't think the cold hardiness of any of those rootstocks will be an issue. Anyway, If we get some mild winters you'll do ok and then maybe you could experiment with cuttings from your own vines. BTW, Lemberger is a good red choice also. I'd plant 1 or 2 of those to compare against the Cab Franc. Lemberger also "supposedly" makes pretty good wine even if it doesn't get to full ripeness which is a GREAT feature. You'll see, getting to full ripeness with an acceptable crop level will be a challenge. I know you could cluster thin but grapes are alot of time and you want to make more than a couple of gallons after spending the time, and it will take time, trust me.

Bob

Reply to
bob

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