Guigal Cote-Rotie Brune et Blonde 2007 / Wine Geek Identify Crisis

annoying you cant edit in usenet. but one thing to add to these categories is "med wine" - that due to the oak aging they are easier to drink young, w hile the "really good" category requires more bottle aging to transcend lik e we know if from vintage port versus late bottle vintage.

ort tax free shop for 45euros. I saw on the phone that its is 60E in stores , and Ive never seen a cote rotie from any producer at under that price any way. And the age was pretty good, too, compared to what you can find otherw ise here. One year younger than the northern rhone wines I had lately and l oved so much.

rnas Champelrose 2004, Michele Jemms Muriette Cornas 2006 and Crozes Hermit age 2006 but maybe even better since Cote rotie is so legendary and playing hard to get.

at makes me so happy. So far so good. Nice textures fell in the mouth, slig ht hints of smoke and olive, like I expected, but it is overshadowed by cho colate and cedar. fine finish, some spice, thyme and rosemary. But there's something wrong.

ox than my smoky cornas box!

famous rotie producer because of parker. Napa cabs is also called "parker w ines".

ear, 2007 second and 2004 third.

ages of oak.

that comes out with aging of a less oaked wine.

mething in it transcends.

a good wine that makes me happy" - it makes a tuscany sangiovese blend, nap a cab, rhone syrah, argentina cab, bourdeaux taste almost the same - even i f its still really good compared to a cheaper lesser oaked wine.

nd is still unique...

t could also include Hermitage, Saint Estephe, Cote Rotie and Gigondas. Is Cornas/Crozes Hermitage suppsoed to be very different from those other subr egions?

You need to consider that all Oak is not created equally. The type of oak, the size of the barrel, the time in the barrel,the amount of new versus ol d versus so old that it's basically inert, the amount of and type of char. These all go into the oak profile of a wine and each property and winemake r has their own recipe.

And Tondonia is aged decades in oak. But old or very old oak, so there is no new oak aroma or flavour at all.

FWIW, I have just purchased Guigal Cote Rotie Brune et Blonde 2009 at Vente ? la Propriet? at 37 euro shipped to Spain. (a 6 bottle case). Before you ask, I never had a Guigal, this was a purchase split with friends.

Do you have other experiences with cote rotie?

The Guigals including Ampuis and the La La's, Rene Rostaing, Delas and St C osme are currently in my cellar.

Yes, the N Rhone Syrahs provide an excellent insight into the problems associated with "modernist" winemaking (new oak, barriques, sur-maturité). The Cote-Roties of Guigal are heavier and more oaky than the more "traditional" Cote-Roties of others such as Marius Gentaz-Dervieux (who's now retired and whose wines sell for stratospheric prices). The wines of Cote-Rotie were originally prized for their delicacy (for Syrah) and aromaticity. Cornas isn't as pricey or as "sexy" as Cote-Rotie, so it has largely avoided the excesses of its pricier cousins. Traditional Cornas was huge, rustic and undrinkable in its youth, but that style has lately been tamed to make the wines more approachable in their youth. They still benefit from aging, though.

One of the world's experts on the wines of the N Rhone, Jonathan Livingstone-Learmonth

has said that, with enough aging, Guigal's Cote-Roties do develop into lovely examples of aged Syrah and become recognizably Cote-Rotie. He may be correct, but for the prices he charges I'm not going to try the experiment.

As Bill says, oak is a complex issue. Many of my favorite wines, wines that develop into something special with age, see a lot of new oak. With time, that oak "integrates" into the wine. However, comparatively few oaky young wines will integrate that oak -- it requires enough fruit and structure (acids and tannins) to age gracefully and absorb that oak. The quality of the oak used also affects this.

Regarding the N Rhone, each appellation is distinct in character. Cote-Rotie is graceful and "Burgundian". Classic examples are available from Levet and Burgaud, but they're quite expensive.

Hermitage is the most highly regarded appellation. The wines are big and brawny but also show some elegance. The most famous estate there is Chave but is now too pricey to consider. Jaboulet also makes a famous Hermitage (not cheap, either). I am not a fan of Chapoutier's, but you might like them.

St. Joseph is considered an "up-and-coming" region. The wines aren't as big as Hermitage or as aromatic as Cote-Rotie, but are good, honest expressions of Syrah. The most highly regarded producer there is Gonon, but good examples are also made by Faury, Faurie and Chave. These wines are not yet so terribly expensive.

Crozes-Hermitage is a mixed bag. It benefits from the fame of Hermitage, but much of the land is located not on hillsides (like Hermitage) but on the flat plateau away from the river and produces indifferent wine. My favorite producer there is Alain Graillot, but Jaboulet makes a good one too, as does Albert Belle.

Cornas, as I said, has traditionally made very rustic, tannic wines. These days, the best examples are made by Auguste Clape, Thierry Allemand (very different - more Burgundian), Vincent Paris and Domaine du Tunnel.

St. Estephe is in Bordeaux and Gigondas is in the S Rhone (and Grenache-based).

Mark Lipton

Michael Nielsen wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

No, not really. I had another bottle of Guigal (a La Mouline) a few years ago, and it was stunning.

My experiemce with the "LA-LA" wines of Guigal is similar. I've had all three a number of times and all have been stunning.

Nice overview.

I always thought that Cote Rotie was the top subregion in north rhone. Surp rised it is actually Hermitage.

So far with what I've tasted I put Cornas as number one, with my limited ta stings. North Rhone is sparse here, except C.H. Many stores dont have a sin gle north rhone wine.

And I agree that crozes hermitage is a mixed bag. completely different styl es inside that name. Some of them are very sirupy dense, and some might as well be Cornas.

The only available St. Joseph wine in my town is Delas and it is more expen sive than Cornas.

A funny thing is that the only name you mention I have seen here is Vincent Paris. I like his Cornas Granite 60. Fitting name, since the best quality I like in Cornas is the gravel dust flavor. The store also has his Crozes H ermitage. Is that worth picking up?

The producers available here are: georges reynaud, vincent paris, franck b althazar, delas, courbis, guigal.

Hmm, actually I see two producers in a one of my stores I havent tried yet: Alain Verset (Cornas), and Yann Chave ( crozes hermitage and hermitage.) I assume thats the Chave you mentioned, except the price isnt that high (90e uro). Delas hermitages Ive seen are 170 euro.

And ofc Michalas St. Jemms.

Michael Nielsen wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Yann Chave is not the same as the ultra-famous Jean-Louis Chave.

Clape Rennaisance Cornas, which should be around 50 euros, is a great wine almost every year.

Delas Freres are one of the four large negociants (buy grapes/wine and resell under their own label) of the N Rhone. In my order of preference, they'd be Jaboulet, Chapoutier, Guigal and Delas. Their wines aren't bad, but rather lacking character (in my opinion).

Cornas Granite 60 gets its name from the age of the vines (60 years). It's a very fine Cornas. A friend of mine has proposed a "Rule of 15" for wines like this: wait 15 years from vintage to drink them.

The Paris and Balthazar are quality producers. Courbis has improved in recent years, I'm told. Delas and Guigal (see above).

Alain Verset in the nephew of Noel Verset, the standard-bearer for traditional Cornas, now sadly retired. I have not tried the nephew's wines, but he certainly has a good name... :)

Yann Chaze is a lesser producer than JL Chave (the current generation there, in a domaine going since the 1400s). The wines aren't bad, but are a touch "modern" (new oak) and he doesn't have the quality of vineyards owned by more famous Chaves.

Mark Lipton

Looks like I have some more Cornas to explore this year both in my town and they have A Clape near my brothers town, so I can pick one up when I visit him :)

Making lamb shanks now and opened the Alain Verset Cornas. I can already te ll that it is very good. amazing PQR, seeing that its the cheapest cornas a vailable here, its a 2012, and it already has that stony smoky note that I love in Cornas, but so far only find in older Cornas. Yum yum :)