Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995

Jason:

Got a vonometer to test the alcohol level??

My guess is that the must fully (or nearly so) fermented before you got it home.

Steve

I'll let others with more experience reply with more information - however, I had a similar problem with Baco must that I purchased. Indeed, it had already fermented.. by the time I received it, the SG was, I think about

1.004 or something like that.

I tested my hydrometer - it was fine.

I am wondering if you're must has the same issue? The fermentation has already occurred?

I guess you need to find out what happened to that juice between the time it was harvested and you received it. How long ago was it harvested? Was it pasteurized a few days late? Was it supposed to have been pasteurized or delievered to you as fresh?

Does the vineyard have any record of the SG or Brix of the juice when it was harvested?

I dunno.. just some thoughts for you.

Ian

Jason,

The vinometer idea is a good one.

Is this Mayers Cider Mill In Rochester? If so, it is probably already fermented out. The owner is a nice guy but he leaves something to be desired as to keeping juice. I bought a raspberry off him once that turned out the same way. It was completely done when I got it home and how in the world do you figure out where a raspberry started SG wise? I fixed it but it took a year and a half of work, I made it into a raspberry mead.

If you live anywhere near there how about Walkers in Fredonia? They do not have the same issues. the website is walkersfruitbasket.com. I got some Chardonelle, Traminette and Diamond off them and it will be outstanding.

Joe

Indeed. The juice came in Friday night at 6pm; I purchased it Sat Morning at 11am. The Chardonay's were boiling in their containers as well; we chalked it all up to temperature differences. Everything had what appeared to be significant amounts of dissolved CO2. I didn't have the time to run a free SO2 test on them.

This is going to be a very dissapointing year if everything has already started fermenting. I went to the site you suggested but they didn't have any Zin listed, nor any Cab Franc. Do they have other available choices?

Jason

If it's got alcohol in it, it doesn't smell/taste it. I'll grab the little pipette tonight and run a test on it.

Jason

No luck.

It's been 3 days since I started the Zin and it hasn't moved. I've used yeast nutrient, extra yeast, energizer. Nothing's worked.

Dave of Mayers tested a sample of the wine and told my wife that it still had 8% RS.... at a SG of 0.992. That's a bit confusing for me, but hey- I'm new and I don't know anything. If I'm doing the math right then the finished product should have an SG of around 0.93? Assuming I can get it running.

The 'starter' sample I pulled out I added enough sugar to take the SG up to 1.06 and THAT started fermenting.

Anyone got a clue what the heck is going on? At what point should I stop pumping in cash into this 5 gallons and just dump it?

*sigh*

Cab Sauv: 1.08 SG, fermenting fine. Chardonnay: 1.08 SG, fermenting fine Zin: 0.992 SG, still and dead.

Ian Scott wrote:

0.992 means a finished wine that's fermented completely to dryness, so adding yeast, nutrient, etc. won't make any difference. If you add sugar, then of course you'll see some fermentation signs but assuming you're not trying to make port out of this, there is no need to add any sugar.

I don't know how the 8% residual sugar number was measured but that's impossible if the sg reading is correct. In any case, you should be able to taste this clearly - both the alcohol and/or any sugar left. When in doubt with numbers, trust your senses.

If you're dealing with finished fermentation, no need to dump the wine. Just sulfite it and rack it into a carboy to protect it from air. Then taste it in 2 months or so to see where you are.

Pp

I took the grape must back to Mayers Cider Mill and the owner, Dave, tested it. He told my wife that there was still 8% RS left in the must, but (what started this) is that I received the must with a starting SG of 0.995. I've since added everything but Draino in hopes of restarting it. It doesn't taste alcoholic and it doesn't taste sweet. I started a Cab at the same time and it weighed in at 1.08 SG... so I swear it's not my hydrometer (and yes, that juice was sweet and slightly tangy). So, according to Dave, in less than 1 day my wine fermented to dryness...

I should probably just order another 20L of Zin and pop the lid right at the store. If the hydrometer reading is anything other than 1.08 or higher refuse it... and if it IS 1.08 then I'll know for certain I was sold spoiled goods.

Then again, I guess I could just go thru the CC company too since I'm not making any progress, but then again I wouldn't ever be welcome back at that store again...

If you're fermenting to dryness in a day, culture me some of the yeast from that batch when you rack it off the lees. :)

Joel

There's no way that juice with 8% RS wouldn't taste quite sweet. You have dry wine on your hands, but I'd expect it to taste at least _somewhat_ alcoholic. Maybe it got diluted somewhere along the way.

I'd take it back.

Tom S

Ian - Dave says it has 8% sugar...this would be about specific gravity 1.032 and like Tom says, the wine should taste sweet. Sounds like it was fermented before you even bought it.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

Dave is wrong, period. I would not suggest you buy anything off of someone who has a hydrometer reading less that1.000 in must and tells you it's at 8% RS. Maybe 0.8% is possible but I don't buy that if you read 0.992; it's not 8%. As to Zin and Walkers, it not grown in that area; try Presque Isle in North East PA, it's about 35 miles west of Walkers.

Joe

Maybe he didn't use a hydrometer. If he mistakenly used a refractometer on a must that was completely fermented, I think he would end up with a reading of around Brix = 8.

Andy

Yep, you've nailed it, Andy. Here is the table from Valley Vintner, relating refractometer with hydrometer measurements:

Pp

Nice link, very interesting work.

That makes sense but who uses a refractometer on fermenting must? It's my understanding that is bad practice for the reasons this graph illustrates. I guess you could look at the sample size as a justification, but clinitest is cheap and idiot proof. That's what I use if the hyrdometer is at 1.000 or below.

I have bought mostly fermented juice from other suppliers but I knew it was that way, they told me before money changed hands. I made a very nice Gewurz that way. Reds are another matter, I bought Sangiovese (like an idiot) at the same time and all that is going to be good for is vinegar. (It will be good vinegar and saves my good wine for it's intended purpose.)

Thanks for the info, it's a keeper.

Joe

Resolution:

Dave swapped out my 20L for 5 gallons of fresh pressed Zin must. When I returned home, I checked the SG as 1.085 @ 53F and it tasted sweet and clear.

Yeast, Nutrient, and the next day it's chugging along at 64F and fermenting quite nicely.

Dave tasted the juice I brought back and said it was still grape juice. He insisted it was just a stuck fermentation. Having added 3 packets of yeast to this 5 gallons with nutrient and DAP, I'll believe him and just chalk it up as a 'bad experience' for me.

When I put the 'juice' I returned in my refractometer it said 14.5% alcohol and the SG was 0.990. This was the same sample that Dave tested at 8% RS.

Either way, I'm happy now. Another fermentation off to a roaring start (this one didn't spackle the ceiling tho, I'm grateful). Now to build an insulated heated brewing booth...

Jason

Great, I'm glad it was resolved to your satisfaction.

If you want to warm it up you can just use a heating pad and a few towels or a blanket. Eckerd still sells a regular heating pad that does not have an automatic timed shutoff; they are getting harder to find. I use old belts to hold it onto the carboy.

If you make wine long enough you will spackle something, you just got it over with early this time... :o)

Joe