Guinness question

Or just use different descriptors.

Guiness is generally forgiving, but has a hint of regret mixed in with sarcasm and often a touch of racial tension.

Ben (Personally I find guiness to be a touch sweet. Not as sweet as most stouts, but a bit sweet all the same.)

So you're not going to answer my very simple question. You're going to twist my words to construe that I say stouts are only bitter, when I clearly said that they had other taste components. You are going to refuse to admit that you first said stouts were not bitter -- ridiculing another person who said they were -- then you said that they were bitter, then you said that they were bitter but their other taste components outweighed the bitter. Do you think people can't back-track the thread and SEE what you wrote? Are you that much of a noob?

John, I didn't want to get personal, but you're being an ass. To avoid admitting that you merely misspoke, you have constructed a transparently ridiculous line of attack in which my pointing out that stout IS bitter has somehow become my saying that stout is ONLY bitter, which I have never said. In fact, if you look at my first post on the topic, you'll see that I even specifically said that stout's bitterness was a different kind of bitterness than a hop bitterness...where's your "To me and many others there are gradations of all flavors including the sensation of bitterness" now?

Ask anyone here on the NG. In over ten years as a regular, I have admitted being wrong a number of times. It's not a big deal. Beer is very complicated, like life, and it's subjective, and the business moves fast. Look at Steve Jackson's admission of error -- again, a mis-statement rather than an egregious fault -- just the other day. No angst, he just said, hey, you're right, I blew that one, corrected himself, and we move on. But you've got to take the first step, or -- see Joel's post -- you're going to be tagged as an inheritor of the ridiculous "I'm NEVER EVER wrong" cloak of the last "John S." we had on here.

Be a regular guy, John. Do the right thing, and all will be cool. You obviously know something about beer, and could make a contribution, and enjoy yourself here. Why not be big enough to admit you misspoke and apoligize for smacking foundryrat when he was actually right? You don't even have to apologize to me. I'm a big guy, I can handle it. But you owe foundryrat an apology. He said Guinness was bitter and you made fun of him. That ain't right.

The thought crossed my mind. Especially after the "all beers are bitter" comment.

Drinking himself into grinning oblivion in Franconia.

For the record "Lew", someone by the name of "foundryrat" started this thread with this:

i tried guiness once. I was at a restaurant ordered one for something different. I think someone else with us ordered one, took one drank gave it to somebody who was with us, and ordered budweiser. That was the first and last drink i'll ever tak of guiness. Horrible beer.

Possibly you didn't respond to that post because it supports your view of what good beer is.

That said, you can read my response to "foundryrat", but it would be helpful if you reread the entire thread. It was after my response that that you jumped in.

And things rapidly spun out of control here:

JS: Sure, the bitter is there as are many other tastes but it is much more in the background than with an IPA or good pils.

LB: So...I'm right, but you're righter? Dude...

It's time to give this endlessly circular discussion about whether stout is "bitter" or whether stout has a "less prominent bitter taste" a rest.

of what good beer is.

That is the funniest thing I have ever seen on USENET. No, perhaps the biggest chuckle I've ever seen on the entire Internet since Al Gore invented it.

Funny, I read the entire thread before my last post, just to be sure you were being as big an ass as I thought you were.

Know what? You were. Not bigger, which kind of surprised me, but as big.

Hey, I agree! That IS where you spun out of control and started saying that, contrary to your previous condescending post, there is a bitter component in Guinness. Yeah, that was pretty weird of ya. What happened? Bald tires? Bad wiper blades? Or maybe just an over-inflated ego?

Sure, as soon as you admit that the endlessly circular part is you running in ever-smaller circles till you disappear up your own butt.

You screwed up, John. You're trying to cut and paste bits of the thread to try to make you look right and me look stoopid, but you ridiculed the OP for saying Guinness was bitter, and then -- hey, look, right up there in your own re-post! -- said that it was actually bitter...among other things. Well, if YOU'RE right that Guinness is bitter, why isn't the OP? Because he didn't like Guinness and thought it was horrible? I know people who know a lot about beer -- the guy who runs this place, for instance:

- who think Guinness sucks. That ain't a crime, it's personal taste.

Still want to keep endlessly circling?

There is some caramel-like sweetness to the bottled Guinness Extra Stout. There's also the roasted barley bitterness Lew mentioned. Finally, there *is* some hop bitterness to the finish. It's subtler than the hop bitterness in, say, Ipswich Oatmeal Stout or Rogue Shakespeare stout (of course, many beergeeks would say these represent different substyles of stout), but it is definitely there.

And John, from what I've read, you want to use IPA as the standard for bitter.

I'll repeat what I said earlier:

To most people, that roasty taste in Guinness is going to come off as bitter. Most people would consider coffee to be at least somewhat bitter. You're basically saying that because it isn't a sledge, that regular old claw hammer isn't much of a tool at all, even though both can crack my skull quite easily.

Well, duh. That doesn't mean that the lower gradations of whatever flavor are no longer that flavor. "Slighty bitter" is still bitter; it's just not as bitter as things that are very bitter.

I read nothing of that in what Lew was saying.

-Steve

Hell, count me in that camp. I find Guinness Draught to be one of the most overrated beers out there.

The bigger problem in mocking someone for saying Guinness is horrible and that they should crawl back to their Bud Light is that it is a sign of someone forgetting their own origins as a beer drinker, as well as doing a good job toward making sure that some people never stray beyond the comfort of fizzy yellow faintly flavored beer ever again.

Very few Americans start out on the likes of SNPA or Guinness. Most people's first taste of beer is something like Bud or Coors. Hell, most people's first several hundred tastes of beer are something like Bud or Coors. There was once a time where I thought Guinness was very bitter, very thick, and very much unlike anything I'd had before. I now find Guinness to be watery and insipid, I realize that it's the texture of the nitro-dispense that gives the idea of thickness (that, and my first exposure was with the Extra Stout, not the Draught), and I realize there's a whole of a lot out there that's like that - better, in fact.

To most people, Guinness is bitter. Sure, throw them a Stone IPA, and they'll go "that's *really* bitter." But they won't stop thinking the Guinness is bitter as a result.

You know why? Because it is.

Even by battered beer geek palate standards. It just ain't anywhere near as bitter as other beers.

-Steve

my apologies you are correct.

Hey, John, check it out. Here's a guy with some class. See how simple it is? Now it's your turn.

I think the thread further down titled "Guinness Gas" is an appropriate subject for most of your posts. Go drink a 20 ounce ale (not bitter of course) and chill out.

It's obvious you don't have an ounce of courtesy in your body, probably because it's been forced out by arrogance. You refuse to apologize for insulting someone for saying something you almost immediately admitted was correct...even though the person you insulted has been courteous enough to apologize to you for a rash post he made as a result of a threading misunderstanding. Now you insist on exposing your purple baboon ass for the world to see.

You were wrong. Admit it. Apologize. Or choose to build a reputation on that error and that attitude, and reap the bounty that rep gains you.

Meanwhile...what have you done for the NG lately? Me, I've been trying to encourage civility.

Finally -- for now -- if you want to see how I describe beers, you could take a look here:

But that probably won't fit your black and white worldview.

Hey Lew!

Have you had the pleasure of sampling beers from Russian River? I *truly* think that they evolve into the west coast's equivalent of Victory Brewing!

you know i am going to make myself drink me some guiness whether it's 20 oz. or 30 oz., and if i don't like it, i'll try it a second time. Maybe i'll change my opinions.

But yes i am going to try this experiment.

Way to go. It took me about a year till I got to like (Bavarian-type) hefeweizen, but now it's one of my favorites. And I remember my first Guinness: poured it down the sink. Hey, I didn't like oysters the first time I had 'em, either.

Hang in there. Glad you stopped back here, too.

Cool. There are a lot of things I adore now that I didn't like at all at first. Both in beer and food. Tastes evolve, and sometimes it's tough to go from one extreme to another in one jump. Sometimes that works out perfectly, though.

If the Guinness works, or doesn't, let us know. If you're looking to expand your beer horizons, there are plenty of other choices out there than just Guinness. And there's no shame in not liking it. I'm not fond of the stuff myself.

-Steve

Foundryrat, thanks for giving Guinness another try. That is very openminded of you.

I don't mind if after a few attempts you still dislike it, but at least you gave it a shot.

Cheers :)