How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


Hi!
I've made homebrews from kits once before. I read in "beer for dummies" that you should not add sugar to the mixes, no matter what is said on the box. The cooper's instructions mention kilos and kilos of sugar - what is the best method for making this beer yourself? According to the instructions or with less sugar?
Thanks for any responces, Marcus
Reply to
Marcus Räder
>Hi! > >I've made homebrews from kits once before. I read in "beer for >dummies" that you should not add sugar to the mixes, no matter what >is said on the box. The cooper's instructions mention kilos and kilos >of sugar - what is the best method for making this beer yourself? >According to the instructions or with less sugar? > >Thanks for any responces, >Marcus
Best way? Purely subjective. Kilos and kilos? I think you exaggerate. Sugar is ok, but not ideal. There are other things you can try. Substitute sugar with malt (try powdered and liquid), glucose, golden syrup, honey, another can of Coopers Stout (ie 2x cans of Stout). In short... experiment. That is the great thing about home brew. YOU can invent it!
Shill #312 -- To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems. Homer J. Simpson
Reply to
Phil Miller
> Hi! > > I've made homebrews from kits once before. I read in "beer for > dummies" that you should not add sugar to the mixes, no matter what > is said on the box. The cooper's instructions mention kilos and kilos > of sugar - what is the best method for making this beer yourself? > According to the instructions or with less sugar? > > Thanks for any responces, > Marcus
I've heard that using one can of Cooper's Stout extract and no sugar made to 10 liters makes good stout. I haven't tried this myself yet, but I'm going to as soon as I get some more empty bottles.
I have however made a stout using two Cooper's Stout cans and one can of unhopped extract (to make it stronger). The result turned out very good, yet heavily hopped.
So if you don't mind lots of hops, you can make your stout with just the extract. If you want you can increase the amount of water to make up to 12 liters, and my guess is it will still be good.
And of course you can use two cans to make 20-24 litres and so on...
-- hevimees
* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 * ------------------------------------------------------------------------ hevimees's Profile:
formatting link
View this thread:
formatting link

--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 *
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
hevimees
> >>Hi! >> >>I've made homebrews from kits once before. I read in "beer for dummies" >>that you should not add sugar to the mixes, no matter what is said on the >>box. The cooper's instructions mention kilos and kilos of sugar - what is >>the best method for making this beer yourself? According to the >>instructions or with less sugar? >> >>Thanks for any responces, >>Marcus > > Best way? Purely subjective. Kilos and kilos? I think you exaggerate. > Sugar is ok, but not ideal. There are other things you can try. Substitute > sugar with malt (try powdered and liquid), glucose, golden syrup, honey, > another can of Coopers Stout (ie 2x cans of Stout). In short... > experiment. That is the great thing about home brew. YOU can invent it!
Adding cane sugar is a relatively cheap way of increasing the alcohol content of your brew, but many (if not *most*) brewers feel that the flavor and quality of the finished product suffers.
If all you care about is cheap alcohol, and don't care what it tastes like, then sugar will work.
If you want a quality, good-flavored brew then follow the advice above. Experiment with malts, honey, etc.
I don't even use sugar for priming- I use either malt or honey.
-- Falcon's Rest Zymurgical Alchemy First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode
--
            Falcon's Rest
          Zymurgical Alchemy
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Zaphod Beeblebrock
"Zaphod Beeblebrock" skrev i meddelandet >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:31:06 +0300, "Marcus Räder" >>>the best method for making this beer yourself? According to the >>>instructions or with less sugar? >> Best way? Purely subjective. Kilos and kilos? I think you >> exaggerate. >> Sugar is ok, but not ideal. There are other things you can try. >> Substitute >> sugar with malt (try powdered and liquid), glucose, golden syrup, >> honey, >> another can of Coopers Stout (ie 2x cans of Stout). In short... >> experiment. That is the great thing about home brew. YOU can >> invent it! > Adding cane sugar is a relatively cheap way of increasing the > alcohol > content of your brew, but many (if not *most*) brewers feel that > the > flavor and quality of the finished product suffers. So why do the instructions on the box of coopers mention 1kg sugar + a bit in every bottle? > If all you care about is cheap alcohol, and don't care what it > tastes > like, then sugar will work. Nope, if it's an excellent beer, it's even better if it's alcohol-free =) Seriously, alcohol is the worst thing with beer and whisky. But since the best beers contain alcohol, most more than 6% and even 18%, I'm doomed to not be drinking beer all the time. > If you want a quality, good-flavored brew then follow the advice > above. > Experiment with malts, honey, etc. Yepp, that's exactly the problem. Where do you suggest I start with the coopers stout homebrew kit? Have you tried it and can recommend something for this batch? Since one batch gives me 90 bottles (enough for ½-1 years unless I drink only my own stuff) I won't have many chanses of experimenting. > I don't even use sugar for priming- I use either malt or honey.
Hmm...Honey and stout does sound like a good combination.
Thanks so far for the response!
M
Reply to
Marcus Räder
> > So why do the instructions on the box of coopers mention 1kg sugar + a bit > in every bottle? It's a cheaper way of boosting the alcohol content, some of the kits I've seen even include the sugar. I have a number of kilo bags of it that I've never used...probably ought to start putting it in my coffee {g}. I don't even use kits anymore, I make my own recipes and buy the ingredients seperately. With all the "kits" I've seen, they are also more expensive because you have to add in the labor cost of the people who are putting them together. A further reduction in expense is that I frequently use my yeast more than once, and I grow my own hops. The "sugar in every bottle" is to prime for carbonation. Some say it affects the taste, others say they cant tell- you have to try it for yourself and see if you care or not. One bit of advice though- whether you use cane sugar, malt, honey or whatever (and note that the amount will be different for the different types), calculate the total amount that you will be using to prime and instead of dividing it up to put in each bottle, heat a couple of cups of water (or whatever amount is needed to completely disolve your choice of primer), mix your primer into it and let it cool to room temp. Then stir that into your bottling bucket. Make sure it is well mixed but do not stir so violently that you introduce oxygen into it. This will make the carbonation rate uniform for the whole batch and lessen the chance of "gushers" or, worse, "bottle bombs". A small measurement error spread over several gallons will have much less effect than the same error in a single bottle...plus, it's a hell of a lot easier than measuring it out and adding it to one bottle at a time. >> If all you care about is cheap alcohol, and don't care what >>it tastes >> like, then sugar will work. > > Nope, if it's an excellent beer, it's even better if it's alcohol-free > =) Alcohol free?!? Surely you jest! > Seriously, alcohol is the worst thing with beer and whisky. But since > the best beers contain alcohol, most more than 6% and even 18%, I'm > doomed to not be drinking beer all the time. I like my alcohol, but you can reduce the amount of it in the batch by reducing the amount of fermentables you put in (sugar, malt, whatever). Naturally, this will affect how it tastes- less malt will produce a thinner, more watery beer. You can experiment with less fermentable additions such as steeped grains, oatmeal, etc. to improve the flavor while not increasing the alcohol so much. The amount of fermentable sugars in your brew (cane, corn, malt, honey, etc.) directly correspond with how much alcohol will be produced. Cane and corn sugars, as well as honey, are more fermentable than malt. Another factor in how much alcohol will be in the finished product is the "apparent attenuation" of the yeast you use. Some yeasts will ferment more sugars than others. Different types of yeast will also produce different flavors in the finished product. >> If you want a quality, good-flavored brew then follow the advice above. >> Experiment with malts, honey, etc. > > Yepp, that's exactly the problem. Where do you suggest I start with the > coopers stout homebrew kit? Have you tried it and can recommend > something for this batch? Since one batch gives me 90 bottles (enough > for ½-1 years unless I drink only my own stuff) I won't have many > chanses of experimenting. 90 bottles? How big/small are they? I get approximately 54 12 oz. bottles from a 5 gallon batch. If I drink only 2 a day, and my wife drinks 2 a day, that barely lasts more than 2 weeks...and I don't see a problem with drinking more of my own and buying less from the store, we *LIKE* my brews {G}. > Hmm...Honey and stout does sound like a good combination.
Oh, it is, it is.
-- Falcon's Rest Zymurgical Alchemy First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode
--
            Falcon's Rest
          Zymurgical Alchemy
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Zaphod Beeblebrock
> Hi! > > I've made homebrews from kits once before. I read in "beer for > dummies" that you should not add sugar to the mixes, no matter what > is said on the box. The cooper's instructions mention kilos and kilos > of sugar - what is the best method for making this beer yourself? > According to the instructions or with less sugar? > > Thanks for any responces, > Marcus > > You have had a number of good responses, but all have missed the key point here. The statement in "beer for dummies" about not adding sugar is based on a popular misconception held by many homebrewers. This is the idea that adding sugar will cause a "cidery" taste in your beer. This false notion was popularized by Charlie Papazian in his book "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing", considered by many to be the "bible" of homebrewing. This notion has long been debunked as old, stale liquid malt extract is the real cause of this off taste.
The dummies book tells you to avoid sugar to avoid that taste. You need to look at why the kit tells you to add sugar. Various liquid malt extracts will vary in how fermentable they are. Some, like United Canadian, are very fermentable and will produce a dry beer with no need to add sugar. At the other end of the spectrum are those like Laaglanders that have high amounts of unfermentable sugars. These will leave the beer tasting sweet no matter what yeast you use.
Kits that use LME that is high in unfermentable sugar will often tell you to add completely fermentable table sugar or corn sugar in order to balance out the unfermentables in the extract.
You can use this information to your advantage to tweak kits. If a kit produces a beer that is to dry for you, replace any sugar in it with malt extract. Conversely, if the finished beer is too sweet, make it with some table sugar next time in place of only some of the extract. It is all a balancing act.
Honey has been mentioned as a replacement for sugar. It too is also almost completely fermentable, but will often add flavors that will take quite some time to mellow out. By carefully choosing the honey, this addition can make some very nice beers.
I hope this gives you some background on which to base your decision on whether or not to use sugar in your beers. As a side note, almost all Belgian beers use sugar to give them their characteristic dryness. Most homebrewers that make barleywines will often use sugar to help lower the final gravity.
Wayne Bugeater Brewing Company
Reply to
Wayne
> You have had a number of good responses, but all have missed the key point > here. The statement in "beer for dummies" about not adding sugar is based > on a popular misconception held by many homebrewers. This is the idea > that adding sugar will cause a "cidery" taste in your beer. This false > notion was popularized by Charlie Papazian in his book "The Complete Joy > of Homebrewing", considered by many to be the "bible" of homebrewing. > This notion has long been debunked as old, stale liquid malt extract is > the real cause of this off taste. > > The dummies book tells you to avoid sugar to avoid that taste. You need > to look at why the kit tells you to add sugar. Various liquid malt > extracts will vary in how fermentable they are. Some, like United > Canadian, are very fermentable and will produce a dry beer with no need to > add sugar. At the other end of the spectrum are those like Laaglanders > that have high amounts of unfermentable sugars. These will leave the beer > tasting sweet no matter what yeast you use. Dammit, now look what you've done! I'm going to have to add sugar to a batch to see if I can tell the difference. > Kits that use LME that is high in unfermentable sugar will often tell > you to add completely fermentable table sugar or corn sugar in order to > balance out the unfermentables in the extract. > > You can use this information to your advantage to tweak kits. If a kit > produces a beer that is to dry for you, replace any sugar in it with > malt extract. Conversely, if the finished beer is too sweet, make it > with some table sugar next time in place of only some of the extract. It > is all a balancing act. I just count on the hops to balance it. I guess I'll have to do some experimenting. Oh, the pain, the pain, I'll have to make more beer. > Honey has been mentioned as a replacement for sugar. It too is also > almost completely fermentable, but will often add flavors that will take > quite some time to mellow out. By carefully choosing the honey, this > addition can make some very nice beers. > > I hope this gives you some background on which to base your decision on > whether or not to use sugar in your beers. As a side note, almost all > Belgian beers use sugar to give them their characteristic dryness. Most > homebrewers that make barleywines will often use sugar to help lower the > final gravity.
-- Falcon's Rest Zymurgical Alchemy First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode
--
            Falcon's Rest
          Zymurgical Alchemy
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Zaphod Beeblebrock
> Dammit, now look what you've done! I'm going to have to add sugar to a > batch to see if I can tell the difference. My own experience is that using sugar (of any type) in amounts up to 20-25% of total fermentables is perfectly fine. In fact, there's no way to make most Belgian styles or many British styles without using sugar. It will lighten the body of the beer, making what the Belgians refer to as a "digestible" beer. Without the sugar, high gravity Belgian beers would be too sweet and thick to be enjoyable to drink. --------->Denny -- Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
Reply to
Denny Conn
>It > will lighten the body of the beer, making what the Belgians refer to as a > "digestible" beer. Ah, that was what I was thinking. > Without the sugar, high gravity Belgian beers would be > too sweet and thick to be enjoyable to drink.
But I happen to like mine so thick that you almost have to chew them. When making any given recipe I tend to increase the amounts of malt, sometimes substantially.
-- Falcon's Rest Zymurgical Alchemy First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode
--
            Falcon's Rest
          Zymurgical Alchemy
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Zaphod Beeblebrock
> But I happen to like mine so thick that you almost have to chew them. When > making any given recipe I tend to increase the amounts of malt, sometimes > substantially. Weel, if that's what you want, more power to ya! I don't use sugar in high gravity brewes like BW, which are supposed to be thick and sweet. But that's the last thing I want in a tripel...they REALLY need the sugar. ----------->Denny -- Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
Reply to
Denny Conn
> >> >> So why do the instructions on the box of coopers mention 1kg sugar + a >> bit >> in every bottle? > > It's a cheaper way of boosting the alcohol content, some of the kits I've > seen even include the sugar. I have a number of kilo bags of it that I've > never used...probably ought to start putting it in my coffee {g}. > > I don't even use kits anymore, I make my own recipes and buy the > ingredients seperately. With all the "kits" I've seen, they are also more > expensive because you have to add in the labor cost of the people who are > putting them together. A further reduction in expense is that I frequently > use my yeast more than once, and I grow my own hops. > > The "sugar in every bottle" is to prime for carbonation. Some say it > affects the taste, others say they cant tell- you have to try it for > yourself and see if you care or not. > > One bit of advice though- whether you use cane sugar, malt, honey or > whatever (and note that the amount will be different for the different > types), calculate the total amount that you will be using to prime and > instead of dividing it up to put in each bottle, heat a couple of cups of > water (or whatever amount is needed to completely disolve your choice of > primer), mix your primer into it and let it cool to room temp. Then stir > that into your bottling bucket. Make sure it is well mixed but do not stir > so violently that you introduce oxygen into it. > > This will make the carbonation rate uniform for the whole batch and lessen > the chance of "gushers" or, worse, "bottle bombs". A small measurement > error spread over several gallons will have much less effect than the same > error in a single bottle...plus, it's a hell of a lot easier than > measuring it out and adding it to one bottle at a time. > >>> If all you care about is cheap alcohol, and don't care what >>>it tastes >>> like, then sugar will work. >> >> Nope, if it's an excellent beer, it's even better if it's alcohol-free >> =) > > Alcohol free?!? Surely you jest! > >> Seriously, alcohol is the worst thing with beer and whisky. But since >> the best beers contain alcohol, most more than 6% and even 18%, I'm >> doomed to not be drinking beer all the time. > > I like my alcohol, but you can reduce the amount of it in the batch by > reducing the amount of fermentables you put in (sugar, malt, whatever). > Naturally, this will affect how it tastes- less malt will produce a > thinner, more watery beer. You can experiment with less fermentable > additions such as steeped grains, oatmeal, etc. to improve the flavor > while not increasing the alcohol so much. > > The amount of fermentable sugars in your brew (cane, corn, malt, honey, > etc.) directly correspond with how much alcohol will be produced. Cane and > corn sugars, as well as honey, are more fermentable than malt. > > Another factor in how much alcohol will be in the finished product is the > "apparent attenuation" of the yeast you use. Some yeasts will ferment more > sugars than others. > > Different types of yeast will also produce different flavors in the > finished product. > >>> If you want a quality, good-flavored brew then follow the advice above. >>> Experiment with malts, honey, etc. >> >> Yepp, that's exactly the problem. Where do you suggest I start with the >> coopers stout homebrew kit? Have you tried it and can recommend >> something for this batch? Since one batch gives me 90 bottles (enough >> for ½-1 years unless I drink only my own stuff) I won't have many >> chanses of experimenting. > > 90 bottles? How big/small are they? > > I get approximately 54 12 oz. bottles from a 5 gallon batch. > > If I drink only 2 a day, and my wife drinks 2 a day, that barely lasts > more than 2 weeks...and I don't see a problem with drinking more of my own > and buying less from the store, we *LIKE* my brews {G}. > > >> Hmm...Honey and stout does sound like a good combination. > > Oh, it is, it is. > > -- > Falcon's Rest > Zymurgical Alchemy > First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of > The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode > My $0.02. Old tired yeast need something easy to digest. Corn sugar is the easiest thing for them, why make 'em work any harder. And the tiny amount of priming sugar won't effect the taste whatever sugar you use.
Michael
Reply to
Michael Boyd

Some more thoughts about this matter. Cooper's recommends using a minimum of 250 grams of sugar with their beer kits, to help with the fermentation. When made into a 23 liter batch this should give approximately between 3,2% - 3,5% alcohol by volume.
I decided I'm going to make a stout with one can of Cooper's stout extract and the recommended minimum of 250 grams of sugar. In addition I'm going to reduce the amount of water so that the beer should end up with the strenght I want. I'll probably make a 15 liter batch which should have approximately 4,9% - 5,4% alcohol by volume.
-- hevimees
* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 * ------------------------------------------------------------------------ hevimees's Profile:
formatting link
View this thread:
formatting link

--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
hevimees
"hevimees" skrev i meddelandet news:hevimees.2e2nqv@usenet.brewtank.com... > Some more thoughts about this matter. Cooper's recommends using a > minimum of 250 grams of sugar with their beer kits, to help with > the > fermentation. When made into a 23 liter batch this should give > approximately between 3,2% - 3,5% alcohol by volume. > > I decided I'm going to make a stout with one can of Cooper's stout > extract and the recommended minimum of 250 grams of sugar. In > addition > I'm going to reduce the amount of water so that the beer should end > up > with the strenght I want. I'll probably make a 15 liter batch which > should have approximately 4,9% - 5,4% alcohol by volume.
Thank you, that helped a lot! Hevimees is from Estonia or Finland? I think I'll try sth of the same.
M
Reply to
Marcus Räder
> > > Thank you, that helped a lot! Hevimees is from Estonia or Finland? I > think I'll try sth of the same. > > M
I'm from Finland, Oulu to be exact.
I actually bought the extract today and will probably make it tomorrow. I'll try to remember to post the results as soon as the beer is ready.
-- hevimees
* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 * ------------------------------------------------------------------------ hevimees's Profile:
formatting link
View this thread:
formatting link

--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 *
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
hevimees

My stout has now been in bottle for about a month, and the result is not very good :(
Overhopped, but not much taste otherwise. I'll leave it for another month and see if it has smoothed out at all.
-- hevimees
* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 * ------------------------------------------------------------------------ hevimees's Profile:
formatting link
View this thread:
formatting link

--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
hevimees

I have found that malt adds body and sugar adds alcohol. In my stouts I use enough malts to give me the thick body that I love but then will always add sugar to give it just a bit more kick. After all it is the buzz factor that makes a good stout all the more interesting. Please note that more sugar less malt can create a thin almost nothing brew but can give you one big buzz, but then who wants to just go for the buzz without the wonderful flavor and enjoyment of a quality brew. If you are going for that you just as well make a still. Denny said 20-25% is OK and for the most part I have to agree with that. I say the most part because it depends on how much malt you plan to put in. If you going for one of those watered down 4-5% ABV brews then you may find 25% sugar doesn't leave you much body in the brew and you just as well to have picked up some cheap low cal light beers from the store and saved yourself the time and troubles.
-- dlihcsnatas
nothing like kicking back in a lawn chair on a beautiful morning with a mug of dark ale to start the day out right. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ dlihcsnatas's Profile:
formatting link
View this thread:
formatting link

--
dlihcsnatas

nothing like kicking back in a lawn chair on a
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
dlihcsnatas
> My stout has now been in bottle for about a month, and the result is not > very good :( > > Overhopped, but not much taste otherwise. I'll leave it for another > month and see if it has smoothed out at all.
After four moths in the bottle the taste is just great :) Very smooth and tasty. Patience paid off this time, though according to all good home brewing traditions, most of my stout has been drunk by the time it starts to taste really good...
I'll definitely make this stuff again. In case someone's interested, I used one can of Cooper's Stout extract and 250 grams of white sugar, made into a 15 liter batch. I'll probably make the next one a bit stronger with less water.
-- hevimees
* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 * ------------------------------------------------------------------------ hevimees's Profile:
formatting link
View this thread:
formatting link

--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 *
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
hevimees
White sugar? Seems like additional extract, instead of the sugar, might eliminate what you initially taste and don't care for. >I'll definitely make this stuff again. In case someone's interested, I >used one can of Cooper's Stout extract and 250 grams of white sugar, >made into a 15 liter batch. I'll probably make the next one a bit >stronger with less water.
Reply to
Richard L Walker

DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.