An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

Message Part 1

I have an interesting and, hope, fun challenge for you, my colleagues in the delightful exploration of the inexhaustible pleasure of teas. I am a pygmy in the field and neither knowledgeable nor an industry expert, but I do have some visibility in the business and academic fields, where a few people are finding out about my interest in tea and my forthcoming book. This is resulting in some intriguing new contacts and opportunities. This message is about one of them, where I would love your insights and opinions.

Up in New York City, just next to Fifth Avenue, where taking one's wife shopping can cost about a thousand dollars a block, there is a hotel with a famous name that has contacted me about putting on some little showcase events around tea. I meet with the Banqueting Manager next week. Here's my thinking (By the way, I don't expect to make any money on this, though should he insist on stuffing hundred dollar bills into my pocket, I will assuredly not resist him; I am doing this because it's fun and it will help sell my book; which will earn me maybe $1.20 a copy. Samuel Johnson famously said that no one but a blockhead ever wrote except for money - hi, call me Blockhead.)

So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I - want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in the black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I need to get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?

I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong, two greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."

Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:

Black teas:

  1. A Darjeeling, obviously, and one that is fragrant and full and contrasts with any hint of the English Breakfast most of the people will probably associate with "tea." I'm leaning to either an Ambootia second flush or Poobong first flush.
  2. A Taiwan Lapsong because I simply love it and also because most of my newbie friends are very struck by how different it is from any tea they know. I converted my CPA yesterday to whole leaf tea rfom Celestial Whatevers, when she came to my house to tut-tut about my record-keeping through a steaming, glow in the dark Lapsang. She phoned me today to say she stopped at Wegman's on her way home and bought an Ingenui infuser. So, when my kids ask "Dad, what did you do to help save the planet?" I can say, I rescued Susan from drinking lawnmower effusions. Both my choices are traditional and safe. I thought of a Guranse or big Assam, instead. I want something that makes the audience forget about Earl Greys and English Breakfasts. I've excluded Ceylon estate teas, much as I love them, for that reason.

Oolongs:

  1. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good.
  2. Golden Lily, mainly for its vibrant appearance and how it expands in the infuser. I didn't want anything too light, which led me reluctantly not to exclude Spring Pouchong. I also wanted to avoid anything too expensive

- a major theme in my book is how inexpensive great teas really are -- so no aged oolong. I love oolongs, which are the tea most unfamiliar to newbies -- 1% of total US tea sales? I'm not excited by my choices. Any ideas on some Wham!!!!! alternatives?

Greens:

  1. Gyokuro: the toughest choice of all. I screw up two out of three attempts to make it and don't know how to ensure a reliable and fresh supply. No Matcha, for the same reasons. I thought of Houjicha, and even Genmaicha for its novelty value. Obviously, I need a Japanese green in the show, especially to wean people off Korean supermarket sawdust and Indonesian cement powder.
  2. Pi Lo Chun: I stayed away from Dragonwell only because I've found that most of my newbie friends are very disappointed by it - too light and too grassy. Plus, too many quality/grade problems, and the high cost of Imperial Dragonwell. Pi Lo Chun seems an "easy" tea to get to know.

Whites:

  1. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from Silver Needles and Adam's Peak because these are in my opinion teas that you come to once you have explored the fuller and stronger ones.
  2. White Darjeeling, from Poobong. I love this stuff and it's a good way to end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.

Now, for theatricals. Yixing teapots (I get to take them home; I love them.). Adagio Ingenui infusers to get across the point that whole leaf tea is as convenient and easy to use as tea bags. I am clueless about Japanese teaware but obviously the Gyokuro needs its own special equipment. I'd welcome recommendations.

A flowery white and a pu-erh for the finale. I don't like most flavored teas but a Numi Lavender Dream, Pearl Jasmine or the like sure looks great as its little floret or teaspoon becomes a glass teapot underwater forest. Then, an affordable pu-ehr - in big cake form. Master of ceremonies (me) hands cake and knife to nice lady or gentleman and asks her/him to cut off a slice. Nice l/g fails so out comes the hammer and chisel. Smash!

So, that's the menu. In addition, I need a good speaker from Fair Trade/Eco Exchange or the like to talk about the social issues of tea, an expert with good photos to show about hoofing it up in the mountains to get great tea, and an industry specialist to talk about the future of great teas in the U.S. If you know of candidates, I'm interested. Obviously, I will add to the agenda something about the Yunnan earthquake and provide an opportunity for the audience to make a donation; I need advice/contacts on how to do this.

So, that's the idea. If it is of interest to you, I'd love to hear your own views. I will give full acknowledgement to contributors. If it does turn out that I make some money out of this, I will ensure that contributors/speakers get a share of it.

I hope that the group will totally change my agenda and generate a more interesting list of teas.

Message Part 2

Now, one other point. Always lurking, anonymously and cowardly, with no profile published even after many years on RFDT, is the paranoid and very cruel Space Cowboy, whose itchy fingertips are probably ready to launch yet more vitriol in response to this message. SC is in fact P--- A---, a Colorado Rockies fan, lover of soccer, superbly knowledgeable about tea, who has made over the years a few visits to such sites as alt.sex.movies. P---, what were you thinking of -- snuff films and lesbian powder room kiss scenes and half-open blouse cleavage!!!!???? His violence of language appears to have begun around

2004, according to the two professional mental health counselors I asked - legally - to look at his diatribes. I'm the founder of a little agency that helps victims of domestic violence, so I know the scary pattern of escalating threats leading to potential real damage; my advisers think that Space Cowboy is more a danger to himself than to others but one of them comments that once the threats from a sociopath start - his verbal symptoms appear to be what is termed secondary sociopathy - then worry. I have a personal concern here, in that my web site got hijacked a year ago by a P-- type expert and I had to put up with hundreds of Space Cowboy equivalent logomania assaults. I have, on the advice of my website genius, taken my site down for a week or so, to Cowboy proof it. So, Paul, don't even think about it. Oh, and be careful on the threats. The last one, about contacting my publisher to drive me out of "here", crosses the line between bluster and danger. If I'd sent you my publisher's e-mail address as you demanded and you'd actually followed through, you would have committed a Federal crime. To quote approximately from memory one of my neighbors, who works in a relevant government agency (when you live 30 miles outside DC, as I do, you have a lot of helpful pals who work for Fed alphabet soup names to talk to) and to whom I've shown a few of your rants: "Another Master of the Universe, who thinks he is the law. We see a hundred ot them, a week. They don't know what they are doing till an agent turns up on their doorstep." Oh, and please do read Title 17 of the U.S. Copyright Code before you tell me what I can't quote and cite from RFTD archives.

After discussions with a number of members of RFDT, I've decided to make public my findings and concerns because they damage our group, individually and as a community. There are only 600 or so members and activity is "medium." It should and could be 1,600 and "heavy." How many newbies are scared off by what they see? How many really good contributors withdraw from RFDT? The first Space Cowboy slash and burn attack that I came across was his vicious and truly weird assault on the publishers of the Art of Tea magazine, in April as I recall. I note that they haven't come back. Please do, Guys, it's for me a great publication, typos and all.

Anyway, back to the NYC event. I would love to hear your recommendations, will make sure I do not misuse any information/ideas you give me, and hope that at least a few of you will be my guest at it. It's not guaranteed to happen, of course, but the probability is in the 90% range. Should be kinda fun. And it will be fun just to see if there is any consensus on what to serve newbies.

Reply to
pgwk
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Hi Peter,

Please tell us just a little about the population that will be attending your NYC event so we might come up with more cogent suggestions. BTW, your choices for the most part are easy to like, and sufficiently varied and interesting enough to hold the day, it seems to me. I have other ideas if your audience is beyond the introduction to tea stage.

Good luck. Sounds like a lot of fun!

Michael

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Reply to
Michael Plant

Hi Michael....

I don't yet know the demographics. I assume most of the attendees will be tourists, many foreign. They will be couples, and probably over 30 in age. I assume they will largely know very little -- there will be green tea drinkers aplenty and of course the Earl Grey sufferers. The as I am sure you recognize but should rename anonymous for now, is talking about building some marketing and press buzz and maybe I should think of two types of event, one for newbies and one for semi- experts. I want to hit New York Magazine if I can - it's weekly, trendy and very food/drink oriented. It occurs to me that I could also add a little something about RFDT in whatever package the hotel puts together.

Just out of curiosity. If you were picking just one tea that for you is the Nirvana, Joy and Bounce Along the Clouds, what would it be? I want to send people home with some small samples and they should include such a special.

regards

Peter

Reply to
pgwk

I haven't been following this group very closely lately, so I'm not really sure what this is all about. But I have been hanging out here for a while, and I don't recall Space Cowboy ever behaving inappropriately here. On the contrary, he's always been very helpful and seems to be very knowledgeable.

I don't think this is the appropriate place to be airing personal vendettas.

Reply to
Fran

Reply to
pgwk

One and one tea only- Ceylon, Koslanda Estate. But how can it be wonderful if there are no choices? Toci

Reply to
toci

With regard to your event:

  1. I highly suggest NOT going gyokuro. It's too expensive, it's way too easy to screw up, and it is more of an acquired taste when brewed properly. Sencha might be a better option-- it's easier to brew and more likely to please the inexperienced palatte.

  1. I might consider a Wuyi rock oolong (such as Da Hong Pao, Shui Xian, Rou Gui, etc.) as one of your oolong choices. They are dark and heavy, which could be a nice contrast to one of the lighter oolongs you have already selected.

Also, I'm on your side regarding space cowboy. Though he clearly knows a lot, he can be irritating and unnecessarily harsh to other posters. You're not the only one who is upset about his behavior. Still, there's nothing we can do about it as far as I can tell.

-Brent

Reply to
Brent

Reply to
pgwk

Dr. Keen,

For new tea drinkers, you may also want to consider these:

Green: O Anji Baicha: it's naturally "sweet" and highly aromatic. O Emei Shan Zhuyeqing - also "sweet", aromatic, and can be ricey. Beautiful looking leaves. XX Long Jing and Biluochun...I have my reservations. They can taste green or simply characterless and flat if it's the cheap and low quality kind.

Black / Red:

- Qimen Hong (malty and can be chocolatey)

- Lapsang Souchong (Ssssmokey!)

Oolong: Only 2 types of oolong? Why not more? Coffee drinkers will most likely appreciate the highly roasted kinds.

- Oriental Beauty

- Medium roast Dancong - peachy, fruity, floral aromas, good aftertaste

- Wuyi Dahongpao / Rougui / Shuixian -- highly frragrant and can be both masculine and feminine at the same time

- How about Darjeeling and Nepalese oolong's? I know of good sources in the US.

Good luck with the event.

Phyll

Reply to
Phyll

Thanks, Brent. I was uneasy about the gyokuro but I also am uneasy about sencha. I just don't know enough about Japanese teas, where to get them and how to brew them.

A confession........ I don't know the rock oolongs. Can you give me the inf to order some to try out. Thanks.

Re Space Cowboy, the only thing we can do is not accept in silence his malice. I don't wish to start any "vendetta" or whatever. I want to be able to express myself and hear my colleagues do the same on an amicable and courteous basis. I opened the topic so that we stop putting up with him and not saying anything to each other about it. That's all. Courtesy, thoughtfulness, respect and consideration..... Without mentioning specific names, that is what I have received in all my public and private conversations in the RFDT space and I want it to stay that way.

I am sure that at times I can be a jerk > >

Reply to
pgwk

Dr. Keen,

For new tea drinkers, you may also want to consider these:

Green: O Anji Baicha: it's naturally "sweet" and highly aromatic. O Emei Shan Zhuyeqing - also "sweet", aromatic, and can be ricey. Beautiful looking leaves. XX Long Jing and Biluochun...I have my reservations. They can taste green or simply characterless and flat if it's the cheap and low quality kind.

Black / Red:

- Qimen Hong (malty and can be chocolatey)

- Lapsang Souchong (Ssssmokey!)

Oolong: Only 2 types of oolong? Why not more? Coffee drinkers will most likely appreciate the highly roasted kinds.

- Oriental Beauty

- Medium roast Dancong - peachy, fruity, floral aromas, good aftertaste

- Wuyi Dahongpao / Rougui / Shuixian -- highly frragrant and can be both masculine and feminine at the same time

- How about Darjeeling and Nepalese oolong's? I know of good sources in the US.

Pu'er: Have you found any candidate yet? If not I may have a few that you might be interested in.

Good luck with the event.

Phyll

Reply to
Phyll

Hi Phyll

Please keep feeding me the information. I will order the teas you mention. Can you please send, via provate e-mail, the names of recommended suppliers.

I thought hard and long about going beyond just two oolongs. Maybe I should make it four.

I don't know the Anji Baicha... It sounds just what I am looking for.

I love Oriental Beauty... Is the group consensus that this may be the best for newbies?

I need Pu'er sources. I hit the Shanghai shops when I was in China three weeks ago and know that I did not have a clue about what to buy but still love the el cheapos I came back with.

Thanks, Phyll. I thought this event would be the educati> Dr. Keen,

Reply to
pgwk

To me, he just doesn't make sense. I haven't found the stuff he says rude - just nonsensical and a little bit loon-ish.

It's called a killfile... plonk him, and let it be done with. If your newsreader doesn't support one, get one that does. If you use Google Groups (it looks like you might), you could look into this:

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w
Reply to
Will Yardley

I think Oriental Beauty could be a great choice (good call Phyll!). As a bonus, you could use that and a light oolong to show the vast spectrum of the oolong tea category, since I'm sure there are a lot of people who think oolong is a distinct type.

-Brent

Reply to
Brent

I have been using Yunnan Sourcing LLC and Awoono Pu-erh Tea shop, both eBay stores, for a lot of my recent pu'er purchases. They have a wide selection - although not a lot of particularly long aged. I find myself acquiring a lot of cooked Tuo Cha recently as I find they all have a distinctive sweet finish (why, I really haven't been able to determine, but the sweetness is distinct). Both of these 'stores' prices I find reasonable and their delivery service all the way down here to Australia has been faultless. Most recently I have been drinking a 2000 Phoenix cooked Tuo Cha from Awoono and am about to order their 2003 Phoenix Golden Tips Tuo Cha which I expect to be sweeter still.

Perhaps you may like to consider some cooked Tuo Cha (because of their sweetness and reasonable price point) as an introduction to a different type of pu'er. When I introduce pu'er to my friends I tend to find they accept the new and 'unusual' taste more readily when I acclimatise their taste buds with the sweeter Tuo Cha.

Also good luck with the venture. Cheers Mal Oz

Reply to
Mal from Oz

Well just keep in mind that everyone has different tastes; I've often been surprised by the teas that people like (and don't like), so try not to have too strong a preconceived notion of what someone's going to like.

You also might want to have some herbal tisanes of some sort for people who don't do caffeine.

And if most people are going to be trying most of the teas, you'd want to think about the order you serve them in.

re: Darjeeling - might be interesting to do one that's not a "true" black - one of the estate first flushes that's more like an oolong. But that would be very similar to an Oriental Beauty.

Not to be too nit-picky, but in my understanding, "goddess" is a kind of poor translation; Guan Yin is a particular bodhisattva, which is not really the same thing as a goddess, though that might be the closest translation to English. Tie Guan Yin most likely refers to an iron statue of the bodhisattva "Guan Yin". You'll see it translated various ways

I think this is a good choice; my suggestion is a medium to dark roast one, rather than a greener one.

Since I think you said you're in NYC, I would strongly recommend that you go visit Tea Gallery, if you haven't already - Michael and Winnie can probably recommend (and sell you) some good teas, and on top of that, might be willing to either speak or recommend someone who can. Even if you don't want to use them as your only source, I think you'd be well advised to talk to them about the event you're planning.

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Rather than a full cake of an "affordable" pu'erh, you might try to find a smaller piece of a less affordable, but better cake.

w
Reply to
Will Yardley

Reply to
Blues Lyne

I only have one comment regarding SC. I for one can agree with your original comments, as I did feel the brunt of his abuse when I first arrived to RFDT. He pushed me to a breaking point, where I sent him an email directly with some harsh words that were very out of character for me. During that time, I did get notification that someone was attempting to access admin sections of my site. I have no way of knowing who it was, but I assumed it was him or another technically inclined angry RFDT member. I don't like getting that angry, but when attacked, one must defend themselves or forever be a victim of abuse. Had it not been for the kind emails I received from Brent, Mike, Peter, & Shen I would have definitely given up on the group and left for good. I'm happy I stuck with it though. You guys are like an encyclopedia about tea. Some postings go way over my head, but I'm learning a lot here.

Desirea

Reply to
Desirea

this:

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Thanks a bunch for this. I have been looking for a Google killfile for a long time. My Agent newsreader has it built in but Google has never had that option. Again THANKS

Mike

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Reply to
Mike Petro

Perhaps you should read the posts of the past month. They are vitriolic, aggressive, threatening and pointless rants expressed in some need to have the last word, no matter the spiteful language. Peter is not the only one attacked. Many, many of us seem to provoke these outrageous posts. I am sure, too, many newbies and less active posters are intimidated by Jim's "flaming" tirades. And, as far as I am concerned, this is hardly a vendetta. If a member's site is sabotaged and is feeling at risk because of the behavior of another member, this needs to be addressed. I, for one, am very grateful for the "heads up!". Being knowledgeable about tea is no excuse for horrific behavior. Peter's contributions are thoughtful and I would hate to see him drop out. Shen

Reply to
Shen

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