Ok, honest opinions please.

OK,

I've been sampling a few loose leaf tea's now and here's where I stand.

  1. I have been to my local tea shop a few times now. But I'm only going to get limited info from the owner of the shop, she isn't going to tell me a lot about where to get good tea, unless it's through her. I don't think she knows a lot either, to tell the truth.

  1. I like black tea, I'm not a green tea drinker yet.

  2. I like sugar and milk.

  1. So far I've only tried a few loose leaf teas. Some blends.

  2. I've tried a couple Assam's, a Darjeeling, a couple of breakfast blends etc..

  1. All the tea I've tried so far is from this local tea shop, (a small crafters booth) and the grocery store.

  2. All the loose leaf tea I've tried is in the .00 per 1/4 lb. price range.

  1. I've ordered some tea's from Upton's.

  2. Still within the price range of around .00 per 1/4 lb.

  1. I like Earl Grey a lot.

  2. I just posted a similar post.

OK, so here it is. I don't have anyone local to talk to about tea. No one I know is serious about tea at all. Everyone I know is a teabag drinker. Even the "tea lady" at the local tea store doesn't seem to know a lot and is unwilling to take me "under her wing." Sort to speak.

This is what I want to accomplish.

I want to be able to have friends over and for them to be able to "notice" a difference in what they're drinking then from what they are used to.

I'm not trying to impress, I just want to be the "tea guy." The guy who knows good tea.

But I can't seem to find what I'm looking for online.

Out of all the tea's I've tried, I can't tell the difference between the bag teas I get from the grocery store, i.e., Twinings and Stash and yes, Lipton's then the loose leaf tea that I have bought.

OK but here are a couple of things.

  1. I am still a novice.

  1. I put sugar and milk in my tea.

  2. I drink black tea.

  1. I have never tried a tea (bag or loose) that has been more then around .00 per 1/4 lb.

So I have to assume that maybe I just haven't "experienced" a good tea yet?

After reading "Why are some teas expensive and others cheap?" from "The Tea Man" at 'Why are some teas expensive and others cheap?'

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, I have to assume that maybe I just haven't had the opportunity to try a really good tea.

So If someone with a kind soul would take pity on me and lead me into the light I would appreciate it very much.

Please understand, I know absolutely nothing about tea. I've read "The Tea Companion" and I've been to almost every Tea Site out there and I keep reading over and over that loose leaf is way better then bag.

Well I want to experience that, but so far I haven't.

The Darjeeling that I had was pretty good and it did taste different then the breakfast blends and the Assam's that I tried.

I did like the Darjeeling a lot. I was lighter and smoother. It was good. But honestly, Lipton's loose leaf is pretty good to me also.

So what does this say? Does this say that my taste buds are shot? "Hey this guy thinks Lipton Tea is good! Har Har Har!"

Or does this say that I'm still drinking cheap tea?

Do I have to pay for a more "noticeable" finer cuppa tea?

Should I start buying some of the $20.00-$60.00 per 1/4 lb. tea from Uptons?

Anyway, that's my problem. So if someone could just show me the way to good tea, I would be most appreciative.

But if it's the situation where, because I'm using sugar and milk and I'm drinking black tea and there's not much major differences between taste in this type of tea drinking, then I'm just going to stick with buying Lipton's loose leaf at $3.28 per 1/2 lb. Because I can save a whole lot of money doing it that way.

But if this last statement makes anyone "cringe" and feel sorry for me, then please set me straight. :)

As you can see, I need help. :)

Thanks.

Dave.

Reply to
The Tea Monk
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uptontea.com

Reply to
Zarky Zork

order 10-15 samplers ONLY at first. All types of tea. Get the printed catalog.

Reply to
Zarky Zork

I'm going to echo Phyll here in saying that you need to lose the sugar and milk. At the very least, you should try the teas you buy without the sugar and milk, and compare them to the teabags without the sugar and milk.

If you think you must have your sugar and milk after trying them without.... then, really, you should just stick to the cheaper stuff, because otherwise you're probably throwing money away. I don't think many people can notice the difference in tea quality if sugar and milk is involved, especially if it's a lot of sugar and milk. How much do you use per cup?

MarshalN

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Reply to
MarshalN

One minor addition:

IMHO sugar is far more damaging than milk, unless you're of the 30% tea, 70% milk variety. Sugar will kill the taste of any fine tea and make it into another sugary drink. I sometimes drink tea with milk, if I'm in the right setting and mood, but I never use sugar, because once it's in the tea.... you can't tell the difference.

So maybe you can try losing the sugar first? Losing both at the same time will be tough :)

MarshalN

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Reply to
MarshalN

[snip]

Well, I'll respectfully disagree. I think there are some teas (strong 'reds' like Assam, most Chinese congou and most second-flush Darjeelings) that are definitely enhanced by a small (

Reply to
DPM

Hi,

I'm confirming your thoughts about sticking to the "cheaper" stuff. I like tea and have my favorites, both loose and bagged. I prefer my tea milked and sugarred (smallish amounts of milk and less than a half teaspoon of sugar) and doubt I can pick up the subtle differences between similar types. I can't see myself spending for the expensive types of tea. My 7 oz. tin of Ahmad Earl Grey works for me at $6. I don't think my Earl Grey experience will improve for me if I were to double the price. One day I'll try to sample a few high end teas then I'll skip the milk and sugar.

Andy

Reply to
ishky1

I'm with dean on this. the Sugar can bring out a hidden flowery note, even in some oolongs, that I never notice without the sugar, but I don't use much, a tsp per cup is enough. Now some of the stronger teas say they are better for bit of milk, which seems to tone down the tannins, but I'm not a fan of milk so I add sugar there too.

Reply to
Kitty

Hey thanks all.

Last night, my wife approached me to tell me that I was using too much sugar. I had noticed that myself since I had been drinking tea.

I also don't mind tea without sugar and milk, I had just been used to putting sugar and milk in my tea and didn't think about it when I decided to drink tea.

Now I understand, I've been trying my tea's now without sugar and milk and there is a noticeable difference.

The Lipton is very bland compared to my Darjeeling and not as smooth. It also steeps a whole lot faster.

Thanks for the replies everyone. This has helped a lot.

I'm on a diet so I need to lose the sugar anyway. :)

Well I'm that much closer on the road to finding my perfect cuppa!

Dave.

Reply to
The Tea Monk

And I'm going to disagree here. I like sugar and milk in my red teas, always have. I can tell the difference between a Lipton teabag and a whole leaf ceylon. I think that fine oolongs etc. can have many more nuances than a black tea (for those with the appropriate sensory level) but I think it's absurd to say that the second you add milk and sugar you've made every tea like every other tea. Tea Monk, what I would recommend is this: check the strength of your looseleaf tea. A Liptons teabag has something like 2 and a half grams of "dust" grade ceylon (most likely though they may use Kenyan teas too) . Even their broken leaf (which I a have not tried) is probably a ceylon or something similar. See if ajusting the strength brings out more flavor for you. Try a Keemun. If you can't tell the difference (with milk and sugar) between a Keemun and a Ceylon then I really am afraid I don't know what to say except concentrate really hard and close your eyes, taste it the way people in the recent tasting thread recommended (sip, aerate the tea in your mouth, use your sense of smell, etc.). Smokers can have a duller sense of taste and smell I hear, and I think even in general people can differ in their sensory awareness, even their tasting vocabulary.

My recommendation: if you like red ("black") teas with milk and sugar, try different kinds, meaning Keemuns, Lapsang, differenct China blacks, Kenyan, Malawian, etc. etc. I would also suggest getting samples first though. And please remember, this is a journey, not a destination. I taste teas that I had a year ago and they taste different to me now. We're always changing.

I drink all kinds of teas all kinds of ways. And I do drink some very expensive black teas with milk and sugar and are they ever great. :) But if you feel like branching out, do get some oolongs etc., but always samples I would say. I wouldn't put milk in the oolongs or greens, (though I've tried it), to me the milk and sugar add something to black teas though. I don't drink black coffee either....

All this is said in the spirit of sharing, but I do get annoyed when people say that if you dirink tea with milk and sugar then you're just ruining it and shouldn't bother trying to get any good teas. It may not be meant that way but it sounds snobbish to me, and I don't drink teas to impress anyone.

Melinda

Reply to
Melinda

Just to clarify my suggestion to Dave:

Without sugar and milk, learn the differences in the taste of the "tea base", so to speak, between bags vs. loose, darjeelings vs. Qimen Red, etc. And when you have a good idea on which one you like and dislike, do whatever you want to suit the chosen tea to your personal taste. I believe this is the core of your questions...to know the differences between one tea from another. I'm afraid I don't see how adding milk and sugar will help you in understanding the base taste of Qimen vs. Ceylon better. Why dip the french fries in ketchup if you want to know the taste of the fries, even though ketchup may improve the overall taste?

Phyll

Mel> >

Reply to
Phyll

I personally find the sugar quite dulling -- it is so ever present that it diminishes all the other senses, whereas milk doesn't do the same thing. That's just me though, and I agree that to some the sugar might even enhance the flavours :)

MarshalN

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Reply to
MarshalN

I suppose I should put a small caveat in what I said -- I think that while you can probably detect the differences, are the differences large enough in the milked and sugared tea that they are worth the price differential?

I'm not too convinced it is.

I think there's a difference between a teabag and loose leaf, but whether a lower grade loose leaf is going to be that much worse than a higher grade one in a milk/sugar added tea.... is up to the individual to decide.

MarshalN

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Reply to
MarshalN

large snip

I would definitely agree that it is up to the individual, one's own tastebuds matter most. But I just get a little weary of people poo poo-ing (not pu'er pu'er ing) black tea with milk and sugar because it's what got me into tea in the first place and it's what I have switched over to from coffee almost exclusively. I was very happy when I realized there were more black teas to try out there than just a basic assam (which was a revelation to me then, as I was only familiar with Lipton's teabags and I didn't like them at all) . It was a wonderful beginning. And I'm not a complete newbie, though I hope to learn anew each time I drink tea.

Couple of caveats for my comments about blacks, and again, this is for me. I find that if I add milk and sugar to a first flush darjeeling it washes out the flavors. I tend to drink the FF's more like I would an oolong, many steeps and no additions. Conversely I don't mind adding milk and sugar to a Nepalese BOP that Upton has, it's a lot more astringent then my FF Dars. I guess in general, the more tannic a tea is, the better it takes milk and sugar, but instead of just never drinking tannic black teas, I add the other stuff in to make them better than palletable. And personally as a heavy drinker (of black teas) I would say that in some cases the price differential is worth it. On others I wouldn't; for instance one CTC assam is much like another to me. But the difference between a generic China congou and Specialtea's Emporor's Red for instance, is night and day. And personally that difference is worth it to me, as a treat.

I'd probably guess too that a person's tolerance for tannins can very widely. I have trouble seeing the charm in a tannic red wine, but of course there are those that are tasting oak, cherries...fruit bombs, lol...whatever. I just don't get that. I also get a difference in quality of tannin between say an oolong and a black tea, now that I think about it. I wonder if it has to do with time of steep...if I oversteep a green time-wise it's eww, but that quality reminds me of tannic blacks.

MarshalN, if you drink black (red) teas (other than darjeeling) then how do you steep them? Gung fu style, lots of leaf and short times, or do you steep them the same way a person might if they were going to add something?

Melinda, drinking Koslanda Ceylon from Upton and not very happy with it, I'm afraid.

Reply to
Melinda

Melinda,

I hope I didn't come across as poo pooing you and others who add milk and sugar into their teas, even though I disagreed with the method you proposed to Tea Monk on differentiating Keemum and Ceylon with milk and sugar added.

In my experience steeping time does affect tannin level in the tea. Just this morning I played around with the steeping time of my Dan Cong oolong (Lone Bush). A 10 sec brew in a gaiwan delivered quite a smooth, albeit thin, tea. A 20 sec brew, however, delivered better taste and aroma, but the tannin was a bit much and coarse. As in my wines, I do prefer my tea smoother and not too tannic.

I find that some FF Darjeelings can be tannic and astringent, yet others can be velvety smooth with those nice FF tastes. So far, it's still a hit and miss. Do you like Oriental Beauty (Bai Hao or Dongfang Meiren) oolong? I found its taste to be closer to FF Darjeelings but less astringent and tannic.

Phyll

Mel> >

Reply to
Phyll

I brew everything gongfu style, whatever it is -- Yunnan gold, lapsang souchong, you name it. It doesn't take that much leaves for red teas - in a gaiwan about 1/5 full with dry leaves is plenty and will give you a number of infusions without the nasty tannins. Of course, I can't brew teabags gongfu style, but that's almost like a challenge :p

That, of course, is only practical at home or wherever there's an easy access to gongfu equipment. Once in a (long) while I'll drink something that just sits in a cup, and in those cases I do what most Chinese do -- pour hot water in, drink, add some when it gets too strong, drink..... repeat until tea tastes like water.

MarshalN

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Reply to
MarshalN

This is a great thread. I agree with the sugar over milk opinion and no additive unless it can't be helped

I can't even stand the smell of milk so it wrecks any cup of tea.

However, for a recipe requiring the dirt from a major leaguer's grave, only yoplait will blend properly

Reply to
marika

I have no zest for telling you to stop doing what gives you pleasure, but consider this: FF Darjeelings are usually astringent, and you've overcome that by brewing them with short steeps (and, I would guess, below-boiling water.) So why not try the same technique on astringent red/black teas?

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

I just remembered another thing you can do to conquer astringency, something that works even with harsh CTC teas. (I'm too much of a purist to do this routinely, but it does work.) Just add a pinch of theanine, which you can get in powdered form in lots of health food stores in the USA. If I were more of a sophist than I am, I'd argue that this is more natural than adding milk and sugar, because theanine occurs naturally in tea.

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

I drink all my teas in the nude. I will say there are some English breakfast blends that I think would look better in milk and sugar. I don't blame the Indians for dressing up their teas with chai masala or coating Russian tea from a samovar with a sugar cube in the mouth. And the Chinese with their perfumes. And what is shu without chrysanthemum? I've got a collection of tisanes I enjoy now and then with tea.

Jim

Melinda wrote: ..whack attack...

Reply to
Space Cowboy

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