Slightly astringent with an aftertaste

WHOA! Stop right there 'cause you're scaring me. Are you aware that a microwave oven can super-heat water beyond the 212F boiling point w/o it ever creating a shimmer much less a bubble? And, if conditions are right, it'll explode spontaneously and scald you.

So, unless your microwave has a temp. probe or control, I strongly urge you to get a thermometer (Wal-Mart has an instant-read thermometer in the kitchen gadget section for ~$5.50) and perform a series of tests to determine how much time it takes to bring the amount of water that you want to 212F, get an electric kettle, or do it the old-fashioned way on top the stove.

What type of infuser? A tea ball? A brewing basket?

If a tea ball, I'll bet the leaves didn't have enough room to expand and float around because dry leaf will expand 3x or 4x and need even more room for the water to circulate freely.

If a brewing basket like a Teeli, you're okay.

Usually, the type and amount of tea affects the intensity of flavor (for example, a Darjeeling is "delicate" and an Assam is "robust") while oversteeping causes bitterness and too high a temperature for green tea causes astringency. Since black teas are typically best brewed with boiling water, but you may have super-heated your water by using your microwave and used a tea ball, it's hard for me to tell.

It's possible that you'll like it once it's brewed properly. That takes experimenting with amounts and times - suggest you test 1 cup at a time until you determine the best combination for your taste. At a certain point, you'll think, "Aha! This is it!" and while the strength, lack of bitterness, and everything else may be right, you still might not like the taste of the tea. In which case, move on to another.

All that you can get your hands on. The basic black teas are: Assam, Ceylon, Darjeeling, Keemun, Kenya, Lapsang Souchong, Nilgiri, Yunnan. There are more :).

Not smoking will help a lot, but you really do need to experience the range of what's available or you'll be cheating yourself, IMO. You'll develop favorites as you go along.

snip

Wow, thanks for telling us that Bluesea because I didn't know that either and I've used a pyrex measuring cup on occasion for heating water in the micro...I'll have to be more careful.

much snippage

I'd add to that that if you find the smell of smoke unpleasant (and in this case I mean smoke like when a person smokes a turkey in their smoker...I have one) then you'll probably not want to start with either Lapsang or Russian Caravan. If you brew a black tea don't be afraid to use milk and sugar (if you're that type) because it really makes a good cuppa Assam. I liked Keemun Mao Feng because it was so different to me as a new person...some people describe it's taste as smokey but I don't connet it with that at all, to me it tastes fruity. Yunnan is good, and I am a fan of assam, as I indicated, with milk and sugar.

I can't think what tea would approximate a chianti...:)

I don't know how you feel about scented teas, but if you like jasmine scent you might try a jasmine phoenix pearl.

Melinda

I used to heat my water in a Pyrex in the microwave, too, until it exploded. Thank God it was still in the microwave with the door closed when it happened, but it surely did stun the heck out of me. I was standing there watching it for it to boil and it went BLAM! and nearly all the water (24 oz) was blown out of the cup.

Afterwards, I asked some friends and did some research and learned that water typically explodes *after* being removed from the microwave. People were scalded w/o anything to warn them:

I use a kettle now, exclusively.

Naw. I've been doing that for 30 years. Never had one explore or even erupt. My microwave might be too wimpy. It's almost 30 years old as well. But the concern is touching. ;-)

I did get a potato to explode once and also an egg. Marshmellows are kinda fun, too.

I have been thinking about an electric kettle for the convenience -- plus it's a gadget!

It's the plastic infuser basket that comes with the Chatsford teapots.

It's a black tea and it was only in there for 3:30, so that wouldn;t be oversteeping, would it?

On the other hand, I just tried another pot and this time I stopped at

3:00 and it was less astringent, so m,aybe 3:30 is too long. But I still don't like it that much.

I actually meant the not smoking part to suggest that my tastes are kinda bland and any strong flavors are off-putting to me at first.

Anyway, thanks for the tips.

-- Email: Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com (11/09/04)

That's about 4-5 times someone has suggested Keemun Mao Feng, so that will be next on my list as soon as I use up what I have now.

-- Email: Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com (11/09/04)

Hmmm... I've never heard of that before, but maybe I need to be more careful. But I really have been doing it for 20-30 years. Dumb luck?

Thanks

-- Email: Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com (11/09/04)

Please don't be complacent about it. The microwave that exploded my water was 24 years old and had never done it before.

Okie-doke.

Maybe. I've got a Darjeeling that I won't brew over 3 min.

You might experiment some more, reduce the time by 30 sec. each try, and give up if you reach 2 min. and still don't like it.

Actually, since you have a brew basket, pull it out at 2 min, taste, put it back in for 30 sec., taste again, continue until it tastes the best. You already know what 3 min and over is like, so you don't need to go over 3 min. After that, brew at one stretch for the entire time that you determined to be the best to make sure.

At the best time, also try differing amounts, a little bit more, a little bit less and see what happens.

Heh. I meant that not smoking will help you distinguish subtle differences that smokers are likely to miss.

Sure, that's what we do here :).

No, it can't. Use your thermometer to check (I did). Microvawe is not magic. The bubbling occurs at the same temp. whatever you use to heat your water, the exception is when you do it in a pressure cooker.

How does water "explose" ? A microwave is basically a water heating device. If it is not fit to safely heat water in a pyrex glass, you are entitled to sue the maker and that of the pyrex. Now after 24 yrs, the "explosion" may have another cause, like the electric circuit being too old and breaking. I had that in an old non-microwave oven, I heard "bang", saw like a fire-work and the stuff inside reduced in a sort of paste. That meant it was time to buy a new oven. And the new one is great as it heats the water at any temp I select from -5 degree celcius to get ice not too hard, till 100 degree celsius, which is the maximum as after that the water becomes steam as I'm at the level of the sea. Well, I admit I'm not a big micro-wave fan, I didn't want any but I took a oven/wave combo as no other model of oven had the size required for my kitchen. As I got it, I tried all the options....and I was wrong, that's great. No comparison with my Mum's horrible 20 yr old microvawe.

To Top Spin : About astringency, I avoid it by brewing my black teas with cooler water. Some will say it's an heresy, but I really like them that way. In this season, I brew Darjeelings at 70 degree celsius. In Summer, I put them for at least 20 minutes in cold water. I find that I get more flavor and less of the bitter/acid taste. For the smoky taste, some teas have it, it's done "on purpose" as there are amateurs of such teas. If you don't like that, you should avoid them.

Kuri

Your *Pyrex* was not the problem ? That looks like what happened in old microwaves when the container was metallic or of some non-microwable material. Well, I understand why you were shocked.

So your "exploding" is splashing.

You can have the same problem. I have an expensive kettle now, as the one I had before ended with a hole in the bottom, the one before that ended as a decorative flower-pot after I painfully discovered it would let water splash upward when over-heated. Well, the time I got burn, that was my fault because you should never seize a sauce-pan or anything overheated without protection gloves and carefullness.

Kuri

[snip]

Darjeelings are fussy teas - you need to be very careful about brewing time and temperature. Also, the combination of more tea/less time seems (to me) to work better than the reverse. When you find the right combination, IMHO there is no better tea on earth!

Try the Makaibari (a top-flight producer, BTW) with water slightly under boiling, and try 2, 2.5 and 3 minute steeps. I generally use one rounded teaspoon of tea per 8oz of water; if the leaves seem large, toss in an extra half-teaspoon. I'd avoid using a microwave to heat the tea water, although it's OK for heating the pot. Tea made with microwaved water never tastes the same (or as good, I think) as with water conventionally heated.

Regards, Dean

I'm not a chemist, but I think this actually is possible. I don't have any confirmed reports of it happening, but if there is no nucleation site for the water to begin boiling, it can superheat, and when you disturb it, it flashes to steam.

Cheers, Steve

I agree that one should be careful.

Here's what I (a layman) think about it:

"Boiling" is when the liquid (e.g., water) is heated enough that parts of it start changing phase from liquid (less energetic molecularly) to gaseous (more energetic).

In a kettle, heat is applied by LOCAL contact with the liquid. The heated parts of the liquid rise, creating convection. Eventually, at local "hot spots", parts of the liquid receive enough energy to start becoming gaseous (e.g., steam). The gas bubbles are not "trapped" by the "energy state" of the remaining liquid -- the bubbles escape to the outside air.

In a microwave, heat is applied THROUGHOUT the mass of the liquid. "Hot spots" have much less of a chance to develop.

In a microwave, the liquid *might* sit "still" enough that when parts of it have received enough energy to start becoming gaseous, all neighboring parts are in the same energy state. The "vapor pressure" of the gas bubble to be formed from one (still liquid) part is TRAPPED by an equal "vapor pressure" existing in the (still liquid) neighboring parts. In such a state, the liquid is called "superheated" -- it has received enough energy for parts of it to become converted to the gaseous phase, but because of the "stillness" of the liquid, these phase changes have not yet occurred.

Normally there will be enough "stirring" within the liquid in the microwave for the "superheated" condition not to develop - gas will start escaping rather than being trapped. Also, even if the liquid becomes "superheated", further energy input would usually cause a random part of the liquid to start "bubbling" (though perhaps if a large amount of gas is suddenly released it might be called "exploding").

But if the liquid is still "superheated" when taken from the microwave, that jostling ought to be enough to cause the phase changes to take place all at once. So much gas might get formed that the remaining liquid is "exploded" out of its container.

It is not a question of sueing the maker of the microwave or of the pyrex. It is the __nature__ of microwave energy to penetrate water, thereby causing it to be heated THROUGHOUT its mass.

mikus

When you remodel your kitchen you'll have to replace the old vented range hood with a microwave/vented combination. That's what the modern housewife wants and a required upgrade by any real estate seller. Mine comes with a manual but at least the clock doesn't blink 12. Listen fellas when it comes to a new kitchen just butt out and let the wife pick the color,appliances,counters,top,cabinets,floor,sink,disposal,compactor,lighting,backsplash,faucets,window,molding,kickplate. I got to deal with the Mexican and Russian installers on lost in translation snafus.

Jim

kuri wrote:

Yes, it actually can. Yes, it has been documented.

A clean, smooth container in the microwave inhibits nucleation, the transition from liquid to gas. Temperatures as high as 241 degrees Fahrenheit have been achieved using a microwave without ever having a bubble form. The jostling of the water when removing typically prompts the sudden formation of bubbles, as evidenced in the boil over.

The same effect can actually be accomplished with a kettle. But most kettles have seams in the metal, or patterns embossed in the bottom. These are enough to prompt nucleation, so at 212/100 degrees, water boils at sea level in a kettle.

I have "tested" several different microwaves over the years, and on several instances, I produced a cup of water that was over 212/100 when measured with a thermometer but never produced a bubble.

However, to accomplish the "boilover" in a microwave typically requires overcooking the water by a couple of times beyond what was necessary to achieve a boiling temperature.

OK, I believe that this is "possible". It's just very unlikely -- at least in my situation for several reasons. I am boiling a lot of water (3-4 cups). It takes about 7 minutes for my microwave to bring 35 ounces of cold water to a boil. I set the timer for 10 minutes. It never goes on and on and so is unlikely to get superheated. For some reason, I have never experienced the lack of bubbles. Always, there are a few bubbles well before it starts a real boil. I have one of those turntables so maybe the turning causes a little jiggling which kicks off the nucleation.

Maybe my pyrex is not really clean so there are little particles on the sides that kick off nucleation.

Remembering way back to high school chemistry, I am guessing that keeping the container still is more important that keeping the edges smooth. The chemistry teacher did a little experiment with supersaturation one day. He took a beaker of water and heated it up to

80C while dissolving sugar in the water. He told us that hot water can dissolve more suger/gram of water than colder water. When he had dissolved as much sugar as he could, he put a pencil over the beaker with a string with a little weight dangling down into the water. He then turned off the bunson burner and went on with his lecture. He told us that we had to be careful not to bump the counter where the beaker was sitting.

After 30 minutes or so, he came back to the beaker which was now much cooler. He took a knife or something and tapped the side of the beaker one time. In a flash, the string was covered with sugar crystals -- like the rock candy you sometimes see in novelty stores. He explained that when the water cooled, it became super saturated. There was more sugar in the water than the water could handle, but the crystalization couldn't get started. The tap got it started.

The string was to give it a place with some rough edges to get started on. Without the string, he said, it mght not form crystals or it wold form on any little rough spot or impurity on the edges of the beaker.

I don't know if this relevant, but something similar might be happening with the water and the formation of bubbles.

That makes sense. I never let it go much more than a minute or so past the boiling point.

-- Email: Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com (11/09/04)

OK, I'll try shorter steep times.

Do you also recommend trying it at lower temperatures?

-- Email: Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com (11/09/04)

The point is that it is "possible." But, like you say, it's very unlikely.

The turntable likely "helps," as does the natural convection of the heating water. It's one of those things - if all of the elements are right, it can happen. But the improbability factor of all of the elements be right is so great that it'd probably take you to Alpha Centauri and back.

(Kudos to anyone who gets the reference.)

Or not completely smooth. Or any number of other issues - like the fact that your microwave has a turntable.

That's always a fun experiment. I can't wait to do it with my kid in a couple of years. You know, opening young minds to science and all that.

Same idea, I would suspect.

See? So you're safe. ;)

Personally, I steep Darjeelings at less than boiling. The full roll that I dump on Assams and China Blacks seems to "disagree" with Darjeelings.

But, like everything with tea, that's a matter of taste.

Yes - if you have a thermometer available, try water in the 190-200F range.

Personally, I think most Darjeelings are really oolong-style teas. In fact, I've had first-flush Darjeelings that appeared to be completely green - no visible leaf-edge browning at all! So treat them like you would a good Tieguanyin or Pouchong: water 10-20 degrees F under boiling and short steeps. In fact, if the leaf style is bold you can get a respectable second infusion from them if you keep the first steep at 2 minutes or less.

Regards, Dean