The Art of Tea, Issue #2

I'd love to do it, but time is limited. The prices for pu'er is indeed going up, but I haven't seen it doubled or tripled like on this site.

Sorry to the vendor.

I have read the first issue fairly thoroughly. The second issue -- I'm in China, and judging by the contents, I don't see the point of getting it. Your company's Chinese mag is about half the price (when factoring in shipping) with articles that I find more interesting, especially since some of the articles in the English mag are translated from articles I've already seen in the Chinese version. Why should I buy the English one just so I can argue with you? I suppose I'm lucky in the sense that I have access to information/ markets/merchants/teas that people in other countries don't, so the intrinsic value of the English magazine is diminished for me. I agree with you, in a sense, that you are providing information in a place that is currently more of a void. It doesn't mean you can't do better.

But more importantly, Aaron, I never responded saying "the second issue is crap -- avoid at all costs!". I said to Ethan in this very forum that the Chinese version of the puerh facebooks came out with some prominent errors that, I hope, will be addressed in the English edition the first time around. I also made some suggestions, hoping, for example, that Wushing will explain any potential discrepancies in the information provided for those of us with no access to the real tea itself. The conflicting sources of information in the Chinese edition were very confusing. I don't think that is an unreasonable request given the weight people will assign to such a book, and instead of getting defensive and throwing it back to the magazine, I hope you'll just take that suggestion as that and leave it to rest. Whether you act on it or not, and whether you have the ability to do so given budgetary constraints or other things, I will never know and don't pretend I know.

Not that I am Phyll, but I think Phyll's concern is not so much with anybody/any tea in particular, but rather the inevitable conflict of interest that may arise. Since we have no idea who holds what tea in their storage, when expert X talks about some tea or another, the reader has no way to know if there are financial interests involved. That's why commentators on financial news these days have to disclose what they hold in their portfolio to make sure that they are not just singing praises of stocks they own themselves and benefit from their comments. The same is true for tea; too bad it's not governed by such rules.

Happy tea drinking, and really, I, as much as anybody else on this forum, want to see an informative, professional, and impartial magazine on tea be a success as it should be.

MarshalN

Buying is not Selling. We all rave about something. We don't have a vested interest. We don't make a buck doing it. For all who have a copy and know something about tea could you just give me one example of learning something you didn't know. I don't mean trivia like names,places,things. Really something that hasn't already been mentioned here for example.

Jim

Jim

Email me your address and I will personally send you a free copy of the magazine, using my own money to buy it and pay for shipping. If you can read it cover to cover without learning something, I will shoot myself in the foot. More importantly I would stake half my tea collection that you will enjoy it, and that's what it's all about...

I mean, I love tea and I'm very passionate about it-- I take it seriously, I do-- but if I ever start taking it so seriously as to become cynical and/or negative then I will find a new hobby/passion that brings me joy. I know forums say nothing about the real people typing, let alone their hobbies, but it sure seems like some of the people around here are jaded. All the people I drink tea with, or discuss tea magazines with for that matter, are happy, smiling and enjoying themselves...

Serious about the offer, really. Ethan

Take your advertising elsewhere.

Jim

...me and you...

It's totally unreasonable to criticize him and not give him a chance to defend himself, and only shows that you are not confident in your assumption that this magazine is worthless. Perhaps those of us (like myself) who are not tea gurus who know everything there is to know about tea (like yourself), will actually learn quite a bit from this magazine-- personally, I have a copy in the mail as we speak, and I am looking forward to reading it. This is akin to saying that review articles and textbooks are pointless as they only restate already known information. I would much prefer reading a magazine to reading rfdt-- partly because of the difficulty in getting the information I want, and partly because of the childishness and pedantry displayed by some of the posters. I have no problem with constructive criticism (asking them to fix typos, etc., etc.), even if I do not necessarily agree, but your comments on the issue have almost no value whatsoever.

Perhaps it was advertising when the first post occurred (though personally I didn't have much of a problem with it), but this thread has since morphed into anything but advertising for AOT magazine. I think getting feedback from people at the magazine is helpful, and shows that they are interested in hearing our comments. If AOT representatives never came back to reply to us, wouldnt some say that they were too afraid to respond? Seems to be a da*ned if you do, da*ned if you don't situation, doesn't it?

-Brent

Jim, You say I have a vested interest and am out to make a buck, but I've already stated that I am a volunteer. Furthermore, I wasn't advertising-- I was offering to use my own hard earned money, which I make teaching English, to personally buy you a magazine as well as send it to you. I don't see how offering to buy someone something is "advertising". Where I come from, we call it a "gift"; or you could have looked at it as a challenge. You said the magazine had nothing to teach you and you obviously feel that you wouldn't enjoy reading it. I think otherwise. I was offering to settle the matter without costing you a cent. What's more, I really would bet my tea collection against yours that a) you would learn something, and b) you would enjoy it.

Despite your rudeness, the offer still stands. If you want, send me an email with your address. Otherwise a polite "No, thank you" would have sufficed just fine...

Regards Ethan

This is getting childish and ridiculous. Jim, if you had bothered to read this magazine, you would understand how beneficial it is to the entire tea community and certainly, to the well tea-educated members on this list. Your cynicism and arrogance is totally unwarranted; particularly, since you have no idea what you're talking about, admittedly not having read or even perused the magazine. As far as being a viable resource to all of us, the contributors to this magazine are very-well respected masters in the field of tea culture. Jim, Ethan, please stop this silly bickering. Ethan, obviously Jim doesn't want to know what he doesn't know. I don't mean this as a "flame" and don't take it the wrong way. Please just stop. At this point, you're beating a dead horse. Peace, boys. Shen

Thanks, Brent! Well spoken!

Shame, I thought this newsgroup was slightly better than some I have joined. It boasts a number of respected and well versed individuals with a common passion - tea and enjoyment thereof.

Opinions ? Of course we are all entitled to them, some we may agree with, some we may not. We may even get loud and passionate - fine, no problems. We all may, from time to time, also make the odd spelling mistake or grammatical error - fine; the world is still spinning last time I looked.

Rudeness ?

PLONK.

One day I asked somebody if he could read the sign No Soliciting. He said it didn't apply to him because he was a Salesman. Quack, quack. I'm familiar with sales techniques. In your case it is called kiss ass or appeal to vanity. In my neck of the woods gifts are called bribes. We just admended our state constitution for government employess to identify all 'gifts' or it is a criminal bribe if not disclosed. So far nobody has mentioned any content that would make me buy a copy. Just it's a good read and educational which can be said for the National Inquirer. My opinion is free. Your rag costs money. Once again commercial advertisement is prohibited by this group's charter. If you publicly state you buy your copy at the newsstand like everyone else then you are intitled to your opinion like everyone else. You have a vested interest if there are any terms for employment.

Jim

PS Hey people anything I know about tea I still learn here. It's a special place. You can throw away the letters-to-the-editor. If you bought the rag because of what was said here then he succeeded and for all I care you can get lost too. I'm up to 75% lost packets on my failing network card. This ain't the first time using Google.

This is all getting real nasty and should be handled in private. The ethos of the Group is shared dialogue and collegiality.

Personally, I wish The Art of Tea magazine venture the best of success

-- there's so little to read out there that I am avid to get a copy (my subscription is in progress.) For people like myself at an intermediate level of knowledge -- more than newbie but less than expert and not part of the trade -- there is so little to read. If I could find ten decent books and ten substantive magazines, I'd buy the lot, typos and all.

The subject of advertising has been a topic here on several occasions. With all due respect to others in this group, the Group Charter does

What follows is the pertinent section, for the full text see

Begin Quote: Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC 4 April 1995. [....]

CHARTER

Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water. Discussions of herbal teas (e.g. chamomile, sassafras, etc.) are also approved, but this newsgroup should NOT be used for advertising herbal tea products or discussing tea as anything other than a beverage. Tea-as-medicine discussions should take place in misc.health.alternative.

End Quote

Dont get me wrong, I am not endorsing nor promoting the placement of advertisements on this group, I don't and won't allow them on my own website and I have had plenty of requests. However, in my honest opinion, the RFDT Charter does not prohibit them, but I will leave it up to the group to decide what the Charter does or doesn't say. It is quoted here in it's entirety for all to see.

Mike

This is Usenet. Commercial posting is prohibited by the REC hierarchy. A group such as rec.food.drink.tea.marketplace would have to be established for commercial posts.

Jim

see

Interesting Jim, can you please provide a reference that documents this prohibition in the REC hierarchy. My searches have not found anything to this effect.

Nonetheless, it is *not* "prohibited by this group's charter" from what I can see, which I believe was the original claim.

Here are some other interesting references on the topic:

Thanks,

Mike

Lawyer. I've never once been challenged by anyone like the last guy who even bothers to look up the Charter. Correctly stating Usenet policy certainly ain't going to make any difference. The Supreme Court has ruled that countryclub practices,procedures,policies are legally enforceable in addition to bylaws. The bylaws do not have to specifically state perse No Blacks No Women No Whoever for them to be excluded. I rest that is the case for disallowing commercial posts in this group in addition to Usenet policy. Commercial posting is allowed in the REC heirarchy in special designated areas identified as such as I indicated. Damn network card.

Jim

topic:

No, but misstating the policy doesn't do anyone a service either.

This is where I have to disagree unless you can provide a "USENET specific" reference. Commercial posting has long been considered distasteful and often OT, but I can't find anywhere that prohibits it except when explicitly prohibited in the individual group charters. The RFDT charter could easily be interpreted to allow some forms of advertising since the statememnt "NOT be used for advertising herbal tea products or discussing tea as anything other than a beverage" only forbids advertising of one very specific type of product and/or applications other than as a beverage, which inherently implies that others forms are not forbidden.

Hehehe, and no, I am not a Lawyer.....

Mike

When I was abuse@ for a medium-ish (now fairly large-ish hosting provider), our policy was always to check the group charter; I believe their TOS (and the TOS of most ISPs I've seen) specifically mentions posts that violate a group's charter.

That said, I think promoting or discussing a project one is working on is probably on-topic anyway (well assuming the project is on-topic and of interest to the group), particularly when the poster(s) seem willing to engage in discussion and are not just "broadcasting" advertisements.

Spam is in the eye of the beholder; my $0.02 is that I'm a pretty rabid anti-spammer, and don't like any sort of advertisement; I've reported several spam posts to this NG. I didn't take the Art of Tea post that way, though.

When people ask for proof I say evidence is a good place to start. There are 407 .marketplace extentions in USENET. There are 34 in the REC hierarchy with 2.5 million posts. The Charters for those groups specifically say Commercial Posts Allowed. The discussion group does not have to admend it's Charter in anyway because Commercial Posts are inherently prohibited. There is a core knowledge about USENET. I don't ask you to prove to me the Charter is part of USENET. When people X post they can't claim where does USENET say I can't. There is a reason this group isn't called food.rec.drink.tea. You are not permitted to do what you want in USENET. If you want to know why do some homework. A SalesPitch followed by I bought it isn't a discussion.

Jim

PS Okay for proof try looking here: ftp:sunsite.unc.edu/pub/docs/about-the-net/usenet-info-center/report/ txt Download the two abbreviated and full .txt files. My network card can barely Google Groups so I can't. I seem to remember they were some sort of USENET Bible. USENET was created in 1979. I would believe the pertinent information has become decentralized overtime. It's there but not probably in one conventient AHA place.