What's in a name?

Welcome to the quagmire.... This is not at all unusual.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:04:49 GMT, "Alex Chaihorsky" cast caution to the wind and posted:

Just had a long and interesting conversation about wrappers and tea names with Dave from Silk Road. Get this - he was surprised that Mini Menghai did not have "menghai" on the wrapper at all. When I translated the whole wrapper for him, he was also very surprised that it has a "7 sons" in its name (you know that means 7 cakes in a bundle) because he said that this type of tea is sold by the bunch of 10, not 7 cakes. The fact that wrappers can just be anything is very disappointing. He said that the Chinese will put anything on the wrapper if they feel it will sell the tea. So I guess we have here the absolute opposite from French traditions of wine and cheese naming and labelling and that is very sad, because the high quality and consistency of the product is what makes faithful customer base. It is actually good for us, the affecionados, because we are willing to try, compare, listen to each other and spend time and effort doing so, while the prices will likely to stay low because there will never be a "brand" or "name" craze, that can only happen if general public is involved.

Sasha.

Can you show me a picture of the wrapper? This is interesting.

Sasha,

"Gold Bud" indicates the young flush that were used for the pressing of this cake. There's usually no indication on the wrapper, especially for Menghai's products. You'll have to check the cake to see if you can see the gold buds. I'm not 100% certain, but I doubt if the tea factories of Kunming and Xiaguan print that either, because in my dealings with the cakes, it's usually by visually checking the cake can one determine what it is called.

So I asked Dave. Dave told me that sometime the

What Dave said is true, but only in cases: a) where a small factory buys over a defunct old reputable factory and uses its wrappers and printing machine to print wrappers for new cakes to be pass off as old valuable cakes; b) where someone collects leftover wrappers from closed old reputable factory and sell them to small factories needing the wrappers, or trying to cash in on the old cakes' fame. I'm not sure how old is your cake, or if it is the gold bud you meant, but I don't think the 2 examples cited may be the case. If you are getting cakes that are post 1973, it is quite safe to assume that what you see on the wrapper is what you get. If you are getting cakes before 1973, then it is only right for you to check the cake thoroughly first before making that investment.

I checked this out with some friends. Surprise, surprise, it ain't no surprise at all. Of the 3 main factories in Yunnan, Menghai's primary export is compressed disc teas in the names of Beengchas (Bingchas) / Yuanchas / Tie Bingchas / Qi Zi Bingchas (7-sons), etc. Does your Beengcha (Bingcha) have English label such as "Yunnan Chi Tse Beeng Cha, China National Native produce & Animal By-products Import & Export Cooperation, Yunnan Tea Branch" etc? That's the most obvious sign that it is produced in Menghai. Both Kunming & Xiaguan rarely print their bilingual labels. The other tell-tale signs would be the prints on the wrappers, however I'm no expert in this field, so I'll leave it to others who are to contribute.

Samar.

samarkand415ab0ed$ snipped-for-privacy@news.starhub.net.sg9/29/04 08: snipped-for-privacy@uk2.net

Danny, Samar, whoever:

So, do I understand that only the Menghai bunch in Yunnan uses the "Natinal Native Produce and Animal By-products Import and Export Corporation" label? That's interesting news.

Michael

Hey Michael,

Yup, this is mostly true, I forgot to mention however, that for Menghai beengcha, the bilingual label only appeared after 1972.

Danny, Samar, whatever. :")

Cooperation,

I have the same cake from Silk Road Teas that they call Mini Menghai, and the answer is: no, there's no English. I'd always wondered about the "by-products" label; thanks for telling us.

/Lew

I actually sent samarkand pics of both cake wraps, so he can take a look.

Sasha.

Many Chinese industrial names are very precise copies of Russian ones of the Communist times. And then Chinese translate them into Chinglish. I would offer my translation which would be Chinese National Agricultural Import and Export Co. Yunnan Tea Dept. Chinese often translate into other languages word-for-word, which brings clumsy words like "By-products" and alike.

Sasha.

Hey, what about "China Agricultural Import & Export Co., Yunnan Tea Division"? :")

I guess the problem in translation work is often the walking the fine tight rope between being too literal or abstractive.

I've explained to Sasha in a personal e-mail why the Gold Bud is indeed what it claims to be, though the Mini Menghai Beengcha confounded me somewhat. Here's the e-mail:

"...I can't make out the green wrapper, it's probably from a small factory, and doesn't tell much. But what is interesting is that it uses the traditional character - something not uncommon, but for small factories, they would usually use the new simplified system...I smell something Taiwanese in this, though I can't pin it down at the moment. I'll run the picture with some friends and see what they can come up.

As for the red one, "gold bud" is written on the wrapper, but not in what you think it should be. Are you familiar with the term "Bai Zhen Jin Lian" - White Needles Golden Lotus [buds]? This tribute tea (in the past) is made with the best flush of Spring, sometimes also known as Chun Jian. The words "Gong Tin Chun Jian" - can be translated as Imperial Court Golden Bud, and it lined on the outer ring of the Cha character"

Samar

Cooperation,

Dropping "National" make it more "Taiwanese".

Alex.

That may be true, but Chinese National can equally be miscontrued as Taiwanese too. What about China National? Haha! We are talking as if we are on the board of the company, herr Tongzhi! :")

Agricultural

Be careful with TongZhi. You are welcome to be of whatever persuasion, but I am nobody's TongZhi.

Sasha.

Haha! I see you understand the nuance of the other meanng to Tongzhi (Comrade)! Nah, I meant it in the strictest communist sense.