I think it is generally accepted that the caffeine content of various tea cultivars by weight are more or less a constant ie any variance wouldn't mean very much say plus or minus 1.5%. Any claims that the pu is low in caffeine could be based on usage. A little pu goes a long way. In my experience I might use a gram of black versus 2 grams of green verus 3 grams for any other tea. You can get more usuable infusions from puerh than any other variety I can think of especially for the black. Caffeine is water soluable but since black can maintain it's taste over multiple infusions I think the chemistry of puerh for some reason must make it harder to leach IMHO.
I consider this to be totally unfounded, can you support it with any hard data? According to all of the accredited research I have read caffeine is extracted very readily and very early.
The fact that any puerh can last multiple steeps has nothing to do with the rate at which caffeine can be extracted. The "flavor" components in puerh simply don't get exhausted as readily as other teas. Some of the Chinese studies have documented how some components extract faster than others, caffeine being one of them, this is why latter steeps tend to taste sweeter. The sweetness is always there but in early steeps it is masked by stronger flavor components, however these stronger components are extracted at a faster rate than the sweeter ones.
Now, if you are using compressed puerh there will be residual caffeine in subsequent steeps until all of the tea has a chance to become saturated with water and therefore allow the caffeine to dissolve. To minimize this effect flake the tea as much as you can without pulverizing it, you want whole leaves if possible, rinse the tea once for 15-30 seconds and then wait a minute or two and then rinse the tea a second time. Additionally, because of the high levels of microbes used to process Black Puerh it has been recommended to me by very knowledgeable puerh collectors in China to always rinse black puerh twice even if it is loose leaf.
Btw, a properly aged green puerh will last many more steeps than a typical black puerh, often twice as many. I speak from experience as I now have puerh from each of the last 5 decades in my collection. Aged black puerh, as a rule, will not gain much after 7-10 years. I have however found an exception to that. I was recently given a gift of some Black Tibetan Mushroom tea (probably Baoyan) that is 20-25 years old and comes very close to competing with good aged green puerh.
Mike Petro
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"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed." Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.
IMHO also includes 35 years of anecdotal tasting. A strong cup of tea will keep me tossing and turning versus a weak cup which causes me to snore and keep my wife awake. It has nothing to do with the first infusion. If you drink tea long enough with more variety you'll recognize more similarities in physical reactions including caffeine immunity. I can drink two or three infusions of black puerh in the evening and never worry about caffeine reactions during sleep. A gram of puerh weighs more than a gram of white tea like SowMee in the sense you get more 'taste' for the puerh gram. However you'll need about three to four times the weight in SowMee for the 'taste' therefore more caffeine in the white cup. It is a simple rule of chemistry if you start with more tea weight you end up with more caffeine. You stated you use 1g/oz for brewing puerh. At most I use 3g for multiple cups totaling 24oz for the 'taste' I prefer. I have a recent crop whole leaf wild tree green log which is only good for one infusion. It won't see the light of day for multiple infusions because it taste that good. The Chinese rinsing of tea is to remove debris and not improve taste. You can say that improves taste along with using clean water. I can also anecdotally say 80% of taste and caffeine is removed after the first infusion of a British blend. But across the board as rule not from my experience in general. What you call sweetness in puerh which I assume is the absence of astringency after multiple infusions is what I call blandness with no edge or bite. It's like the use of Chinese 'fragrant' to describe teas. It has nothing to do with sweetness. Just more aroma or less. The table you mention has nothing to do with taste and the amount of caffeine in any particular infusion. Drop any of those teas in cold water versus hot and the taste and caffeine won't be the same till after 24 hours. There is nothing worse than using science to come up with the wrong conclusion about the taste and caffeine in your cup. You also don't need a thermometer,scale or timer to make tea. If you get the tea jitters add more water, use less tea or drink sooner. BTW my recent Xiaguan Perfect Flame Tibetan Mushroom tea is half green. You say tomato... I leave it up to others with more money to buy aged puer which has nothing to do with caffeine. I'll put up my thirty year old black Poo Nee (cheap back then) against any of your expensive (current speculation) aged green for a multiple infusion taste runoff. In case you call my bluff no I don't because I'm sitting on my retirement and you're just waiting to file an early Chapter 7 before October.
All of this proves nothing. Naturally if you brew your tea weaker you will have less caffeine. I was referring to caffeine as a "percent" of the leaf, it is the only scientific way I know of to quantify it.
BTW, if I put 5g of leaf in a 5 ounce pot and I get 10 steeps out of it, that about 50oz of tea more or less, not too terribly different from your ratio now is it? After a rinse and the first steep or two the caffeine in my rig is pretty much gone. So if I start out in the afternoon, by bedtime I am drinking tea that is basically decaffeinated.
That is NOT what several different Chinese people have told me. Yes, removing dust etc is "part" of it, but it is also to remove other non-contaminants as well with the ultimate goal of improving taste. Go ask a Chinese Tea Master, I have already asked three of them.
Hmm apparently you have never experienced the hauntingly elusive sweetness in the aftertaste of a really good puerh. Is quite real, quite sweet, and it is indeed very much more than the absence of anything. "Sweetness" is the term that has been used for many many centuries, I doubt that thousands of years of Chinese tea heritage is wrong.
The use of the table was to show that green and black had little to do with the caffeine content, and it does indeed show that. In a different but related post today I also stated that leaf permeability, time, and temp where all relevant variables. The optimum extraction temperature for Caffeine is roughly 170f or above. Hence some teas brewed at lower temperatures may retain more caffeine through multiple steeps.
I don't get it, where have you proven me or my reference to research wrong? Just because you brew your tea weaker than a gongfu style doesn't change the PERCENT of caffeine in the leaf or the rate at which it is extracted.
If you wont put your money where your mouth is then why offer?
Now, all of that hot air above (aka bait and switch) still did not address the only real thing I challenged you on. Do you have any proof that caffeine is extracted slower out of black puerh than out of green puerh or any other tea for that matter. Just because you brew it weaker doesn't change the extraction rate, it only means you have less of everything in your cup including caffeine.
Mike Petro
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"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed." Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.
Ok, Jim, you got me. I confess, I just like the pretty flowers. In fact, there is nothing like some pu-ehr with chrysanthemum after a good frolick in the meadow in my favorite dress, where I warble Irish love balads and braid my long hair. I secretly long to be Chinese. I carry the little red book in my back pocket (or in my panties, as the case may be) at all times. I apologize for projecting my deep psychological scars on to my choice of tea.
Just a slight note, Lee, it's ok to use the Chinese names for the teas; we're all pretty in-the-know laowai's here when it comes to tea. Using words like baked, cooked, and semi-fermented can confuse people as to exactly which tea you are talking about.
I'm in Dongguan, Guangdong currently, and Pu'er is pretty popular among tea drinkers here. The overall favorite would probably have to be TGY, but Pu'er would be a close second.
Guangdong Wulong?
Also, remember TieGuanYin is of the wulong family, and it is still relatively strong if you haven't eaten anything beforehand. Getting used to it has little to do with it.
Just a comment from me...I do notice that decaf Tetley's is not as bitey as the regular. And I do like the regular taste better, but have to decide in the evening whether I want full flavor and stay awake or settle for the decaf. It's something I notice with decaf coffee too. I guess this would make sense that caffeine would be a flavor component, or enhance and change other flavor components, in the tea. Our sense of taste must be pretty good.
Me too... that makes the tea world go round... Anyway I tasted the cake you are talking about, Camellia flowers cake. It was puer with flowers, they were lovely and so interesting..The tea was intoxicating to me. I wish you guys could tell me more puerhs that taste like this one does? Was a wonderful ripe peachy very long lasting brew. I only stopped because I had to go to bed, it was still going well at midnight when I had to stop,(I started at 4). Was a wonderful experience! Jenn
My favorite: the "Ginger Peach" black tea from The Perennial Tea Room (near Seattle's Pike Place Market). Before I found that, I drank Republic of Tea's which is more ginger than peach.
I actually like the Pu-erh from Teavana, and I'm looking forward to trying *real* Pu-erh. Anyone in the Seattle or Portland (moving there next month) areas have a suggestion? How is the Pu-erh from World Spice (also near Pike Place)?
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