3 Zin challenge

Hi Emery

next Sunday 30 october in Montpellier I will do a tasting on the occasion of the launch of my friend Maurice Bensoussan's book "Vinland" about the history of vines and wine in America.

I plan to serve 3 zins, a primitivo, and maybe some exotic american thing like Catawba. But, but, but, if I get lucky, I may get my hands on a limited supply of pure experimental Crljenak Kastelanski, the croatian grape that has been found identical to zin... stay tuned for a world premiere? ;-)

BTW, if anyone has any idea of how to obtain 4 bottles of something really 100% american please let me know...

Cheers

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Emery, You really can't go too wrong with current releases: 2001 and 2002 were both excellent Zin vintages and, while I haven't tried many '03s, it should be very good as well. As for producers, there's the usual suspects (Ridge, Ravenswood, Rosenblum, Storybook Mountain, Cline, Biale, Seghesio) and the smaller producers (Zoom, Dashe, Fife) and the more controversial (Turley, Martinelli). It might be educational to pick 3 from different regions (Dry Creek/Geyserville, Amador, Paso Robles, Napa) to investigate terroir in Zins. If she shops at K&L, she might also find some aged Zins for sale: right now, they're selling some older Biale Zins and quite a few aged Turleys.

HTH Mark Lipton

Mark,

what makes those named "controversial"... ?

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Those wineries make Zin in a very highly extracted, over-the-top, highly alcoholic style that has found great appeal with Parker and hence have become highly sought-after items. For those of us who like to drink our Zins with food, these wines are anathema (although, in truth, Turley's style has become more food-friendly in the current millenium). They also tend to fetch very high prices, making them easy wines to pass up. The controversy arises because they are tasty beverages, albeit perhaps closer to fortified than to table wine.

Mark Lipton

I concur on these selections, especially the Biale. I've been nursing my allocation of the Black Chicken, Aldo's, and Grande sv's, and recently tasted the Spinker and Dogtown Flats [?] from the '02. All excellent.

The idea of finding the terroir in Zins is a great one. I attended a tasting some years back with just that theme and it was an "eye-opener" for me, at least.

I also agree with your later post in this thread re: recent Turleys. I happen to be a big fan of heavily extracted Zins, but appreciate their more recent offerings, especially the '01 & '02 Duarte. That said, there are very few Zins that I cannot find something to love in. Out of a half-dozen ZAP events, I have only encountered 1, that I did not enjoy, and I tasted as many as the event's time permitted.

I also agree with Ed's recent accessment of Ravenswood. We just did a dinner with Ravenswood, and there was less to really get into, than in years past. Maybe the corporate thing has not been as kind to them, as some would have hoped. The sv offerings were still good, but too much of what was served was just average Zin.

Almost all of the sv Rosenblums are very good, and worth sorting through a dozen, or so Rosenblum labels.

Thanks for the tip on K&L. I'll call "uncle" Ralph tomorrow and see what he's got around. Can't ship it until it cools off a bit in AZ, but I may be out to pick it up, as I need to clean out my locker in Napa anyway.

Hunt

Don't waste Adele's time and effort bringing back wine that you can buy anywhere. If it is for sale at K&L, it is for sale almost anywhere. There are many good wine stores in SF that have wines that are not available outside the state. How about Rafanelli or Armida Poizin or Selby or Carol Shelton. Turley wines are hard to come by in most places. How about some Ridge Unobtainium. There has got to be a lot of good wines that you can't buy at home.

A few here

Myron

On every count, not for me

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

[snip] ] Amador county is a very "hot" region--in the sense of producing some ] exceptional examples, not particularly in reference to the climate. I ] really like Renwood and both the Grandmere and Grandpere offerings are ] exceptional. ] ] Can't go wrong with Fife either--the Mendocino or Whaler. ]

Thanks Ed, I was hoping to hear from you on this one. I'd definitely like to try something from Amador, that's exactly what I was looking for.

So, Grandmere and Grandpere are Renwood Amador cuvees? Any particular year you prefer?

] If you find a Turley and can stand the tariff, you might buy it, if ] only to say you'd done it once! ]

I think Adele would probably laugh and leave the store empty handed if I asked for Turley... :)

-E

] In article , snipped-for-privacy@eudrup.ude says ] ... [] ] > You really can't go too wrong with current releases: 2001 and 2002 ] >were both excellent Zin vintages and, while I haven't tried many '03s, ] >it should be very good as well. As for producers, there's the usual ] >suspects (Ridge, Ravenswood, Rosenblum, Storybook Mountain, Cline, ] >Biale, Seghesio) and the smaller producers (Zoom, Dashe, Fife) and the ] >more controversial (Turley, Martinelli). It might be educational to ] >pick 3 from different regions (Dry Creek/Geyserville, Amador, Paso ] >Robles, Napa) to investigate terroir in Zins. If she shops at K&L, she ] >might also find some aged Zins for sale: right now, they're selling some ] >older Biale Zins and quite a few aged Turleys. ] >

] >HTH ] >Mark Lipton ] ] I concur on these selections, especially the Biale. I've been nursing my ] allocation of the Black Chicken, Aldo's, and Grande sv's, and recently tasted ] the Spinker and Dogtown Flats [?] from the '02. All excellent. ] ] The idea of finding the terroir in Zins is a great one. I attended a tasting ] some years back with just that theme and it was an "eye-opener" for me, at ] least. ]

Hunt, Mark -

I like the terroir idea a lot too. Say I go with Ed's Renwood from Amador, and a Biale -- because I don't know them at all. Although Black Chicken and Dogtown Flats have a certain romantic quality, I hate to choose based on name alone. Can you clue me in to what might be the tariest, spiciest, pipe tobacco-iest, blackest fruit of the bunch? :) (In short, to make the french audience say: Wot the Fo*?) Without, mind you, being contraversial!

Funny, of the "majors" in Mark's list Biale is the one I really have no experience with.

Thanks!

-E

[] ] Emery Davis wrote: ] ] > Adele is currently in SF for work, and can be persuaded to bring ] > back 3 bottles of great CA zinfandel. (I guess she's not as strong ] > as MT :)) ] > Here are the criteria: should be available from K&L or another ] downtown store. Price is not really an object other than if it's ] > too unreasonable she won't get it, and I'll be disappointed. ] > Please specify all info necessary to find the wine you're talking ] > about (i.e. year, vinyard, etc.) ] ] ] Don't waste Adele's time and effort bringing back wine that you can buy ] anywhere. If it is for sale at K&L, it is for sale almost anywhere. ] There are many good wine stores in SF that have wines that are not ] available outside the state. How about Rafanelli or Armida Poizin or ] Selby or Carol Shelton. Turley wines are hard to come by in most places. ] How about some Ridge Unobtainium. There has got to be a lot of good ] wines that you can't buy at home.

Thanks for your thoughts, Bill. As you may recall, we live in Normandy, so Zin of any kind at all is pretty much "Unobtanium." (Is that a real wine, or a joke?) As this is the cepage we miss the most from the US, I don't think her time will be wasted almost no matter what she brings.

I suggested K&L because it's not too far from downtown, she knows where it is and it has a large selection.

I've heard great things about some of the names you mention, can you be more specific about where they might be available? Also, following Mark's excellent terroir suggestion, do you know where the fruit on these is from?

thanks

-E

Emery Davis wrote: ]

Emery, To do the terroir thang, you'll probably want to stick to a single vintage, of which 2002 will give you the most options. Re Biale's wines, they are hard enough to score that I'd just grab whichever I could find. In an ideal world, I'd probably choose the Aldo's or Black Chicken, but that's just me. Now, about the tarry, spicy, black idea: that's what you'll get with an Amador Zin, but a top Sonoma Zin such as Biale has will typically show more tart raspberry and pepper, which is after all the point of a terroir tasting, no?

Biale isn't a major in the sense of a Ridge or Ravenswood: his production isn't even a tenth of theirs, I'd wager. I included him in my "usual suspects" because along with the 3 Rs his wines are about as reliable as they get, year in and year out being tasty, ultra-correct Zins. I didn't include Renwood in the list because my experiences with them have been more spotty, but Ed's vouching for them in '02 is a good guarantee. Other good Amador producers are Karly (esp. "Warrior Fires") and Easton (run by Bill Easton, who started Solano Cellars way back when). Renwood has far larger production, however, and is easier to find. The Grandpere vineyard got its name because it has the oldest documented vines in CA (1856 or something like that), but Scott Harvey of Folie A Deux owns the vineyard, so Renwood's Grandpere is from another source now.

Good luck, and post notes when you open them! ;-)

Mark Lipton

Second Mark's suggestions:

For the Terroir Tasting to have the most impact, I'd line up at least one from each, Sonoma, Paso Robles, Santa Cruz Mtns, and Amador. Stylistically, you will see a load of difference between vintners/vineyards in each, but for a terroir comparison, you cannot go too far off with those AVAs.

Most of all, good luck, and please report how both your search and the tasting go.

Hunt

Someone bought for me (as a gift) Trentadue 2002 "La Storia" Alexander Valley zinfandel. Alcohol was a whopping 15.85%, but I thought it was a helluva wine which managed to mask the heat very well. Cepage is 85% zinfandel, 10% petite sirah, and 5% carignane.

The W "Brooding, viscous purple hue. Uplifting plum, cherry and alcohol aromas with a whiff of pencil and cedar. Layers of plum and blueberry flavors with a complementing mineral nuance that adds depth and structure while driving the fruit-laden finish. $28"

The 2001 was rated 90 points by Robert Parker. I am a fan of big, monster zins. In fact, I am on the Turley mailing list. However, I think that this Trentadue zinfandel is the best zinfandel under $30 I have possibly ever tasted.

Dimitri

The '84 Ridge Geyserville was $5.50 and a hell of a wine; the '90 was $15 and perhaps my favorite of the past 25 years. ;-)

Mark Lipton

Well, Ridge Geyserville is still only $30. How do you rate it compared to Trentadue? I am not sure I'd take the Ridge, although I like Ridge wines.

Dimitri

I haven't had any recent vintages, Dimitri, although I've liked their Zins in past vintages. If I see any, I'll give it a try. FWIW, I'm no longer such a big fan of "monster" Zins, though I still want wines of substance. It's all semantics, I suppose.

Mark Lipton