Crianza?....Marques de Caceres.

snipped-for-privacy@btl.net (Belize) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to give a better answer, but Rioja (a wine-producing area of Spain, and what Marques de Caceres (mostly?) produce) is divided into 4 main 'types' for the red, at least. The 'types' depend on how long they are aged for, either in barrel or bottle, before release.

They are (from 'youngest' to 'oldest')

Joven - the young wine of Rioja, usually with no cask aging. Crianza aged 2 years, of which one must be in oak casks Reserva aged 3 years, of which one must be in oak casks Gran Reserva 2 years in cask plus 3 in bottle.

Be careful, though - just because it's Spanish doesn't mean it's Rioja, and other areas have different rules about what the names mean. For example, in Valdepenas the Gran Reserva is, I think, 3.5 years - apparently due to the reduced acidity of the wines.

Steve's answer has the basic answer as to what Crianza is. As to usage, I don't think there's any formal rule, but if I name a Rioja from a big house that makes a full-line and don't say Reserva or Gran Reserva, you can pretty much bet it's a Crianza. If I saw "Marques de Caceres Rioja" in an ad, I'd be pretty sure it was the Crianza. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

snipped-for-privacy@aol.comdamnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m13.aol.com:

Sorry, I forgot to answer that second bit ... But yes, I agree with Dale - I would _assume_ that it was the Crianza (if I saw it on a wine list, etc.) It is not all that common to see the Joven wines around.

I wouldn't say one is 'correct' or not, but depends on what the speaker / writer is trying to convey. Rather like Champagnes - if somebody says "A bottle of Lanson, please" you assume they mean the Lanson NV Black Label.

snipped-for-privacy@aol.comdamnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m13.aol.com:

Hi,

I don't think Marqués de Cáceres makes young wine. Their basic wine is a Crianza, and has a backlabel that credits its condition. The full name in the label is "Marqués de Cáceres Vendimia Seleccionada" and, IMHO is an uninspiring wine. I have enjoyed their Reservas in the past, specially the

Best,

Santiago

When my wife and I vacationed in Mallorica about 6 years ago....we had fantastic Rioja's. But we lost the names and about the only ones we see here are the Faustina wines.

snipped-for-privacy@btl.net

Thanks for the reply Dale.

But who and what was Steve's answer? Since he obviously answers what a crianza is.

Richard

snipped-for-privacy@btl.net (Belize) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

That'll be me!

As I wrote;

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to give a better answer, but Rioja (a wine-producing area of Spain, and what Marques de Caceres (mostly?) produce) is divided into 4 main 'types' for the red, at least. The 'types' depend on how long they are aged for, either in barrel or bottle, before release.

They are (from 'youngest' to 'oldest')

Joven - the young wine of Rioja, usually with no cask aging. Crianza aged 2 years, of which one must be in oak casks Reserva aged 3 years, of which one must be in oak casks Gran Reserva 2 years in cask plus 3 in bottle.

Be careful, though - just because it's Spanish doesn't mean it's Rioja, and other areas have different rules about what the names mean. For example, in Valdepenas the Gran Reserva is, I think, 3.5 years - apparently due to the reduced acidity of the wines.

Well, I don't know of "partly hitting the bell" is a saying in English, but it is in Dutch, referring to more or less knowing what it is about, but not completely.

The main thing is: IF a Spanish wine is a Crianza, it MUST be labeled on the bottle. The same with Reserva and Gran Reserva. There should be a "back label" on the bottle, with the law-approved number, AND this statement (crianza, reserva, gran reserva). If it isn't there, you can almost be sure, that the wine is a young one (Joven).

Mind, this applies to ALL Spanish wines, so not only to the Rioja's!

As to the aging:

Crianza: must have aged at least (!) 2 years of which at least (!) 6 months on oak barrels Reserva: must have aged at least (!) 3 years, of which at least (!) 1 year on oak barrels Gran Reserva: Must have aged at least (!) 5 years, of which at least (!) 2 years on oak barrels

Rioja wines MUST have been bottled in the Rioja

regards,

Hillebrand

"H.J. van der Veen" wrote in news:3f7ec00c$0$267$ snipped-for-privacy@news.inter.NL.net:

Well, as you point, it is not always that way. It is true that each D.O. (Denominación de Origen, similar to A.O.C.) has some rules for a wine to be labelled as Crianza, Reserva or Gran Reserva. But it is also true that a winery can sell a wine with a Crianza backlabel even if it could be legally released as a Reserva. While this is not usually the case, there is a bunch of wineries in Spain that are releasing their wines without aging backlabel, that means... as a young wine, when they are not. And, some of this wines are amongst the best.

Best,

Santiago

True indeed, and exactly in the way the French do with their system of declassifying the wines. But concerning Spain: al the mayor wineries (like Marques de Caceres) tend not to do that, so the backlabel should give you an indication. It might well be, though, that they are sending declassified wines tot the USA. And of course those wines will be good quality, but they are considered less by the winery itself. In Europe (i.e. Spain and Holland) I never encountered bottles like that.

Hillebrand.

Hillebrand,

I think we have a slight misunderstanding. I'm the one that posted "As to usage, I don'tthink there's any formal rule, but if I name a Rioja from a big house that makes a full-line and don't say Reserva or Gran Reserva, you can pretty much bet it's a Crianza. If I saw "Marques de Caceres Rioja" in an ad, I'd be pretty sure it was the Crianza."

I'm not saying that the wine doesn't say Crianza on label. I referring to spoken Winegeek. :) Just as I assume if one says "97 Mondavi Cabernet" that they mean the Napa bottling, not the Private Reserve or Oakville, I assume if someone says Viticcio Chianti Classico they don't mean the CCR. So if I hear Marques de Caceres Rioja with no qualifer, I'm assuming it's the Crianza until told differently. Obviously many folks here are better critical thinkers here than I, and would not make such willy-nilly assumptions. :-)

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Right. I got the meaning. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Regards,

Hillebrand.

Veen"

marques de caceres is one of spain's best rioja's all vintages whether crianza, reserva or gran reserva are excellent ! I lived in spain for several years and drank this like water....

you can't go wrong...