I have noticed the temperature rising rather steeply in this group recently. Is there a case for respecting other people's opinons - even when they are obviously, pigheadedly, just wrong and also for expressing our own views with the charity which good wine should induce?
This used, until quite recently, to be a group which was usually free from flame-wars, prided itself on being informative and helpful to those who were new or relatively new to wine, and recognised that the passion we all share is such an enormous subject that none of us knows everything (or even very much) so that although we might be passionate about wine we did not get impassioned with each other.
How about giving up flaming for Lent, or, preferably, even longer?
Sorry - climbed down from the pulpit now: I think I need a drink.
Timothy Hartley wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@dd30.orpheusnet.co.uk:
Boxers or briefs, etc. But friends we all occassional get the spelling wrong, and can always blame tupos, err typos, when cornered, but some of us like different things and get annoyed when others aren't on our wavelength, let me just say I don't care for Zinfandel, but it is OK if you do.
I feel, rather strongly, that there is a great deal of bovine excrement to be found in the world of wine. There are few other areas in which there is more foolishness and idiocy.
The magazines are full of it. You find rank beginners coming here (and to wine shops) asking about TASTING, when they should be asking about DRINKING and cooking. To these brainwashed souls, the next 'step' from absolute beginner requires 'tasting'. Hogwash. There is NOTHING beyond drinking wine for the consumer. TASTING is for PROFESSIONAL wine people, not connesseurs. Even the connesseur is incapable of tasting anything in a wine that a beginner cannot also taste, in the context of a meal. The connesseur simply can recognize certain traits that he likes or dislikes.
I dr> I have noticed the temperature rising rather steeply in this group
I think we are all aware of your thoughts and feeling in this matter Michael, and to a certain extent, I have no quarrel with your opening statement.
Where I take issue, is your ongoing crusade, expounding as follows.....
If you truly believe that there is nothing beyond merely drinking wine; no enjoyment; no curiosity as to the vineyard location; the challenges the grower and winemaker faced; the philosophy of the grower and winemaker; the challenges that each vintage offered - the subtle differences between the top vineyard and the lower, then I pity you.
To some of us, merely having a glass of wine or two with a meal is simply not enough.
It is not a matter of right and wrong!
I am interested in knowing *everything* about what I am drinking.
I am lucky enough to live in a little piece of paradise here in the South Pacific.
New Zealand now boasts 500 wineries - and I have personally visited over 400 and *tasted* their wines, enjoying the experience.
I have also been fortunate enough to have visited literally dozens of wineries in such countries as Australia, France, the USA, in Germany and Italy and South Africa.
It is my intention to visit, in the future Spain and Chile, and return to France and Germany and Germany - and yes, even the US - again. And dammit, I want to *taste* their art.
What you keep on expounding is like having an art print on your dining room wall, but not being curious enough to want to visit the great galleries of the world, to see the real thing.
Yes, you enjoy your drink with your meal in the moment, but you will never experience the pride and the passion that the winemaker exudes when you are standing in the vineyard, *tasting* this years pride and joy; or being in the company of a winemaker in the cellar, *tasting* a barrel sample of some exquisite, future release.
In my not so humble opinion, you are wrong when you say that a person, new to the world of wine can gain nothing from *tasting*.
Standing in the company of others, with varying levels of experience, sniffing and swilling and *tasting* two or three or ten small samples is an excellent way of gaining experience, and forming opinions - upon which to base a buying decision - get it - learning enough to make one's own decision.
You, yourself, choose only to drink wine with meals - that is fine.
But, suggesting that the drinking of wine without food, or tasting small samples of wine is somehow wrong, or a waste of time is pure (now what were the wrds you used?) - pure bovine excrement.
I can think of no greater waste of money, or time - and no greater insult to the grower or winemaker than to limit the appreciation of their craft.
Where do I say or imply any of this? I am quite curious and read a lot about wines and their makers. I have numerous wine books. I try lots of wines, and notice how different makers approach a given grape (Barnebera, for instance). My complaint is solely about TASTING, which takes the wine out of its intended context, which is the accompaniment to a meal. To me, this is the height of idiocy. It's like wanting to remove all the other instruments playing Beethoven's 5th just listen to a single violin. Maybe theconductor would need to do that, but not the audience. That violin was intended to be heard in context with other instruments.
Why isn't it? It SHOULD be!
I am curious too, but I don't let it get in the way. Do you know about the problem of floral abortion in Grignolino? Have you ever drunk a well-made Grignolino (Giacosa, for instance)? It's a marvelous wine, easily among the best in the world, but the wine 'experts' ignore it or call it trash. As a result, it's all but impossoble to get it in the US, because snivelling wine-tasting experts like Parker look down their noses at it.
No. He gains nothing. He's fooling himself.
I drink many fine wines. Just had some Valtellina last month. Hard to get here in Ohio, but it was magnificant!
No: it is an insult to the winemaker to take his product and use it outside of its intended context.
"Joseph Coulter" in news:Xns977FB49987462yourvacationcomcastn@216.196.97.136:
Much is now clear, Coulter. :-)
(Then again, I once talked for several minutes to a sincere middle-aged co-worker who liked food and spoke praises of "Zinfandel," before enlightenment dawned -- slowly, as in misty weather -- that the "white" kind was meant.)
Developing a palate or a "taste" for wine is cumulative. When I taught "Basic" classes on wine--I sometime served a wine retailing for over $30(today $60) either Bordeaux, Rhone or Burgundy---the novices had many reasons why they didn't like the wine. We always had a "graduate" dinner after the last class and we would serve the equivalent of the bonus wine of class 1. About 90% of the time novices could discuss this wine with some clarity.
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