France Burgundy vs Cal or Oregon Pinot---Value issue

My point precisely, Tom. I don't see that our views are very different at all.

But the effect on domestic agriculture would be uncertain at best. Without the price supports for, e.g., corn and soy, prices would plummet and most family farms would go into receivership in a matter of 1-2 years. This has already begun, but the removal of price supports would accelerate the process. I cannot say how much of an impact it would have on large scale corporate farms, but I suspect that they would also curtail production on crops with low profit margins (grains, mostly). An economic Darwinist might argue that that is the nature of the game and the only valid outcome, but as a matter of national security (so much in vogue these days) do we really want to outsource food production to other countries -- not to mention the esthetic objection of getting rock-hard tomatoes and unripe raspberries from Chile? If one looks at the demise of the Soviet empire, their growing dependence on food imports was no small part of the end for Communism in the USSR. Then again, I should know better than to get into this discussion with a professional economist! ;-)

Mark Lipton

Me lord, regarding your statement on subsidies, I don't disagree with you in principle. I do think there are reasons they will never abandon the subsidies that benefit family farmers---which are slowly declining anyway. Our inheritance taxes are doing away with them. But since you responded to one of my posts I honored you by eating lamb of your country. As shown below.

-Had NZ Rack of Lamb for dinner tonight. Prepared as follows:

Season with Cajun Spices, Sear, When Cool rub coarse grain dijon mustard, coat with light bread crumbs and some more cajun seasoning, then bake at 425 for 15 min....turn oven down to 325 for another 5-10 min. Let rest 10 min, Serve Med. Rare.

NZ and Aussie lamb really is great. We buy NZ lamb at Sams(Wal-Mart) and Aussie Lamb at Costco. The NZ is more petite racks and my favorite. Both are better than American lamb.

Served tonight with Oregon 1998 Pinot Noir-Ponzi Reserve. It was very nice.

In rural parts of West Wales, they have been using cooking oil as diesel for some time. We are so taxed in this country it is far cheaper, but the Revenue are on to it. Unemployed wine tasters and parfumiers are seconded to walk the wild streets sniffing for fish and chips.

JT

Wonderful, Bill - you really ram it home! Anders

you guys are really punny.....

LOL! It appears that I've misjudged you, Anders. I hadn't known that you possess a sense of humor. ;^)

Merry Christmas!

S moT

I guess I misinterpreted your statement. The subsidies are responsible for inefficient production is the west, and they benefit both big and little farmers who have water rights.

I do not know what would happen to farm production in the US if we eliminated price supports, but I do have reservations about the "ruinous competition" (read too low prices) argument. This has been used as an excuse for regulation of trucking, rail, and so called fair trade laws. Prices did not go through the floor when fair trade laws were eliminated, but the big stores (eg Sams Wines and Spirits) charged lower prices.They charge enough to make a fair profit, however.

I suspect the drop in grain prices would be self limiting, and that big farmers would continue to produce it. After all, if enough grain farmers throw in the towel, that would raise the price to a profitable level for those remaining. And to assume that American farmers would all give up and cede the market to foreigners is to suggest we do not have a comparative advantage in growing grains.

As far as farm land being usurped by commercial and residential development (another post), that is also self-limiting for the same reason as above.

Have a Merry Christmas (belated) Mark.

Tom Schellberg

Agreed.

Also agreed.

This is where I don't agree. It's not that we wouldn't have enough land to grow food for the current demand. The issue is the land that we would need to meet demand in the case of a world wide natural disaster or (God forbid) another world war, may be developed for other uses. IMO, US farmers are being paid not to grow crops but keep the land available if the need arises in the future.

There are similar reasons to financially support our airline industry and our automotive industry. We need to retain the ability to gear up to full production in case the need ever arises.

Andy

Now if all are subsidized, uhntil one factors out the subsidy, one cannot tell who has the competitive advantage.