Advice re French wines

I find that when people are relatively new to wine, they tend to value impact over nuance. Gaining an appreciation for complexity is a path many eventually travel, and as they do they become more appreciative of the virtues of Bordeax and Burgundies (not to say there aren't a few in your face sorts of wines from those areas).

If you are looking for the sort of flavour concentration you get from an Aussie Shiraz you'll need to look at the South of France - Bandol and such. I'm sure many people will leap to your aid and post some of their favourite French wines in that style.

Interesting that you should aim toward Bandol. I've only limited experience with Bandol, but it wasn't pleasant. My first encounter was at a French restaurant in Denver (I hope that isn't oxymoronic), that specialized in mussels. Lots of preps of mussels and all quite fresh and good. My friend, who spent seventeen years in Europe and therefore out-tenures my seven, ordered a Bandol ('95 or '96 IIRC) and it was horrible. The nose was wet barnyard (I thought corked) and the flavor was moldy gym socks. We sent it back, only to be told by the maitre'd that the wine seemed proper to him. We still refused it and they graciously allowed us to change wines.

When we returned to Colorado Springs that evening, we decided that we'd explore the cellar and we found that my friend had a Bandol, about ten years older that we brought out to see if the maitre'd had grounds for his position. We opened, decanted, aired, swirled and "lo" the same barnyard, gym sock, evil flavors greeted us. Not at the intensity of the younger wine, but still distinctive. Possible for two bottles from decidedly different vintages and provenance to be both bad? Of course, but I think unlikely.

That being said, for French reds loaded with "in your face" fruit, I'd lean toward cru Beaujolais. I had some Morgon last summer that had more bright strawberry flavors than I'd ever encountered in a wine. And Fleurie or Broully have always returned a lot of hay in the fields and wild berry to my palate. St. Amour comes with a nose of violets.

And, of course, Rhones can often give a bigger, fuller, Aussie shiraz sort of experience.

Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Hi Larry,

Please d>A lot of members obviously swear by French wines and really enjoy

I'd agree that many are light to medium bodied, yes, though permit me to say that I don't find decent ones bland. But it all depends upon what you're used to and what you like,

What one mght describe as an "Aussie-style" french wine, perhaps?

I don't want to sound too negative, but it's a bit like saying, "can someone recommend me a make of Turkey that has got more weight and concentration of flavour, my favourite meat is beef".

I'll not turn this into a great essay, but most of the best French wine is designed to be subtle and to be drunk with subtle food, a great in-your-face kind of wine is so much MORE easily produced in Australia and California, where they have reliable sunshine and wonderful ripening conditions. Apart from the Bandol suggestion, which is excellent, I'd look to quality wines from the Languedoc-Roussillon, or from Provence or the southern Rhone. Some tend to be more tannic, but not all.

All the best Ian (To reply by email PLEASE don't use "Reply to" but use my name at wanadoo.fr) Thanks.

enjoy

bodied,

France is a fairly large country with several distinct growing regions. The wines vary greatly by region, because the climate is different, the soil is different, and the grapes grown are different. In most regions, there are several different wines made, which also vary greatly. For each of these types of there are many different producers, and each producer has a different style. The same producer, in the same region, can make two different wines of the same type in different vineyards close to each other; the wines can differ because of subtle differences in soil, amount of sun the grapes get, elevation, age of the vines, etc. And the quality and style of the wines vary greatly from vintage to vintage.

So any statement about French wines, in general, is almost meaningless. There is no such thing as a general French wine. Lumping together two wines as different, say, as Sauternes and Chambertin, is pointless, and can only confuse.

Please don't take this as an insult, but as a simple statement of fact: if you've tried only a few, you have very little experience on which to base an opinion. If you enjoy wine, almost certainly there are many French wines you would like very much. And very likely others you won't like at all.

Well you do get some funk on some of them, but not all.

I guess I was thinking about them as I just picked up some Pibarnon, but Bastide does some that drink well early. The Tempier wines need time, but don't drink to badly when young.

I got the impression he was looking for something with more weight than the Beaujolais you suggested (though we often tend to forget Beaujolais, which can be a lot of fun as long as it isn't nouveau).

Perhaps something along the lines of some of the Languedoc Roussillon style would suit him better.

No offence taken. I will admit I am still quite ignorant about wines and wine tasting. But that's why I joined this ng.

I've bought a lot of the Aussie wines and some of my friends and acquaintances associate that with being an "expert". That's a laugh!

" but most of the best French wine is designed to be subtle and to be drunk with subtle food"

I should have mentioned that all or almost all of my wine drinking is done without food. I've replaced most of my beer, and other booze drinks with red wine. But that piece of information helps me put many things into perspective re French wines.

Anyway, I do have to ask one question to those more experienced. Some members seem to be quite well versed in many countries' wines. Some posters mention French, USA, Italian, Spanish and so on in the same posts. How can one do that? Either you are with a lot of people who enjoy different wines, or you enjoy more than one bottle/week ;-} or you are a lot older than me (53) and have had time to "work" on it. (OR ALL THE ABOVE)

Larry Stumpf, S. Ontario, Canada

Well, there are a quite lot of what the French call "amateurs (de vin) éclairés" (enleightened amateurs) in this group, and some that are even in the business, amongst them Ian Hoare (who runs a bead & breakfeast in France with possibly the best table d'hôte cuisine in this category, cooked by himself) or myself (I'm a professional wine-writer based in Vienna, Austria, and I'm Austian, so this would explain my far less-than-perfect command of the English language), but there are others like Bill Spohn who apparently is not only a collector of vintage sports cars but also of vintage wines (from the *very* best producers, I have to add), and he drinks them in a frequency that the only feeling coming to my mind is pure envy ;-)

Anyhow, may I repeat what I have said before: If ever one of the afw regulars passes by Vienna: My cellar is full, and a bottle (or two or three) will always be shared.

One bottle a week?!

Sorry, but I guess I don't speak to teetotallers.

M.

Larry wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I would say that most regulars here drink several bottles a week (some regulary post as to multi bottle meals!

Many of us are somewhere lower on scale than those Michael Pronay mentioned, but we tend to be passionate about our likes and dislikes. And most do tend to the wines they like for me this is French - Loire valley, Cru Beaujolais, Rhones, Burgundian whites; Italian - mainly Tuscan (but not super tuscans) and what ever else strikes my fancy.

of

You are overly modest. I don't know what your speech sounds like, but your written English is almost always indistinguishable from that of a native English speaker.

I wish my German (or any other language) was as good as your English.

Try Chave St. Josephs Offerus from Rhone, it's Syrah and I rather enjoyed it.

Hmmm... Linen wrinkles easily, Larry. Better off with wool, if you ask me! ;-)

As others have mentioned, Larry, the problem is one of differing styles. The majority of French wines are less about fruit and more about structure and complexity. Part of the reason for this is that almost all of the major wine-growing regions of France get substantially less sun (as measured in degree-days) than their counterparts in CA and Oz. This results in less (over)ripe grapes being harvested, giving the wines a different character. However, a top French vineyard in a good vintage will produce a powerful, fruity wine if the winemaker doesn't screw it up. The problem for you is one of price: those wines will generally sell for major $$$.

Your best bet is to go for a red wine from one of the sun-drenched regions of S. France. The most easily found of these are wines from the Rhone Valley. If I were you, I'd start with a Chateauneuf-du-Pape, but a good example will run you ~US$30 these days. Both the 2000 and

Good luck, have fun, and let us know if you do try one out!

Mark Lipton

Well, Larry. This is an interesting commentary. A lot of people started drinking wine in their twenties, or younger. It's like asking why, at age fifty, one is a much less experienced skier than the fifteen year old hot-shots on the mountain. Any age is a good time to to take up wine drinking (or skiing for that matter). Just don't worry about how much the next guy knows, rather learn from them.

Three suggestions from a fifty-one year old who began collecting on a modest basis in 1976.

1. Don't let anyone tell you to drink more than you want to. I know one member who does not drink a lot (certainly not every day) but specializes in Burgundy, and is the resident expert. (It helps that he worked in the trade.)
2. Go to a lot of tastings or organize a tasting group.This will allow you to compare a lot of bottles, without having to open and consume a zillion bottles yourself.
3. Do reconsider your aversion to wine an food pairings. Many wine come alive with the proper food pairing.

You may want to organize a tasting group. This is certainly easier to do in southern Ontario than in Wyoming (but I have succeded in organizing monthly tastings here).

Tom Schellberg

Much appreciated Tom.

Think I'll start with #2. Our wine stores put out a monthly Vintage booklet listing two release dates and plenty of wineries promoting their product through tasting nights.

Larry Stumpf, S. Ontario, Canada