jargon

Fat vs. lean refers to the level of acidity in the wine. A wine high in acidity will taste "lean"; one low in acidity "fat." This is further modified by the degree of extraction (phenolic extract or dry extract) in that wine, with the greater extraction reducing perceived leanness and v.v. A good example of a "lean" wine is almost any Italian white wine. Pick up the latest vintage of a Bolla Soave. For a "fat" wine, try a cheap Aussie Shiraz. The lastest version of Yellowtail Shiraz should serve admirably in that regard (once you get past the sweetness of the residual sugar).

Structure refers to the combination of acidity and tannins, especially in the context of red wine, that help make a wine ageworthy. From a sensory perspective, structure is associated with increased astringency (bitterness) and increased sourness (acidity). A highly structured wine won't be very pleasant to taste in its youth, in most cases.

If you have more questions of this sort, you might want to invest in a good general knowledge guide to wine, such as Karen MacNeil's Wine Bible or Making Sense of Wine by Matt Kramer.

Mark Lipton

Sorry, I forgot about this one.

ok, that's helpful.

plonk?

plonk?

That brings up another question - which wines are selected for aging, why, how? Which you've addressed. Is a wine produced with storage in mind, or is that decided after it comes out of the barrel?

I mostly avoid red wines, on account of the tannins. That signals a wine intended for aging, to smooth out. But overwhelmingly, people drink them young. I don't get it - they enjoy a beverage which makes them pucker?

Can you a suggest a wine which is acidic but not tannic, and vice versa?

Will do -

Why this question? Certainly both are cheap and popular wines - he was trying to give you examples that are easily available and don't cost much.

I suppose I'd characterize Yellowtail as plonk, but so what?

Wines are produced with aging in mind, or (for the most part) not.

Pinot noir tends to be acidic and not tannic. Valpolicella also tends to be acidic and not tannic.

The aforementioned Yellowtail Shiraz is often tannic with less acidity.

Sorry, I disagree Doug... in a nice way of course :-)

Does the lower colour density imply lower tannin? I don't think there is ANY correlation. Macerate white grapes (vinify them as a red) and that (slightly off white) wine will be tannic too.

Would you not agree that Burgundies ARE in fact tannic (and how!), and so is Amarone (and how!)...?

So I would say wine from PN is maybe SLIGHTLY less tannic than, say, a cab madewith the same technique, but I would not say they are NOT tannic.

A better example of a definitely low tannin wine is Beaujolais.

As for Lambrusco, well, I have had some low yield well extracted wines from that area that are as tannic as the next wine.

I'm guilty of over-generalizing.

Sadly I've had too few Amarones to venture an opinion on them.

My experience with Burgundy is less limited but also quite limited compared to yours and I've found them considerably less tannic than (for example) Bordeaux, though of course this depends some on the wine-making.

My experience with US PN, in particular from Oregon is considerable and these wines are generally not particularly tannic.

Agreed.

Not forgetting wood tannins from oak treatment.

Cheers!

Martin